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NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

bitsoffreedom.nl

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Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#121

Post by ecb_penguin »

alkonaut wrote: post #60
ecb_penguin wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please for the love of god make it a legal requirement that messaging must be made available as a separate app Please for the love of god do not make legal requirements about how to build an app and what features can be included. > We need to be able to message our friends without seeing a feed without having to convert all of our friends to a new platform. lol, you have no legal right to how a chat dialog must be…

That would be the sensible idea in a free market. But that ship sailed LONG ago. Now there are apps and "markets" that are so important and dominating (Amazon, Facebook, ...) that the only alternatives are basically to split them, control them or regulate them in detail. The problem isn't lack of "innovation". Anyone can make any social app work the way they want to. But that doesn't mean the same rules and laws appl…

> That would be the sensible idea in a free market.

Absolutely nothing stopping you from starting a social network

> But that ship sailed LONG ago.

I'm pretty sure there are hundreds? thousands? of startups ready to launch that all do some variant of FB.

Why are you on YC if you think free market tech is dead?

> But that doesn't mean the same rules and laws applies - or should apply - to one with 1B users as one with 100 users.

lol, what? We have different laws depending on how popular you are? What are the thresholds for when new laws apply? Is it strictly user count? Engagement time? Revenue?

Innovation may be dead in Europe but don't try to bring this nonsense elsewhere.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#122

Post by em-bee »

Aurornis wrote: post #86
em-bee wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring companies to make and maintain a separate app entirely if their product has messaging features is an unreasonable requirement the better alternative is to require interoperability with other messenger apps, so can use the app of my choice. this is a proposal under discussion since years ago. I seriously doubt that your friends are only able to communicate through exactly one communication channel some peopl…

> some people do exactly that. they refuse to communicate on anything but their messenger of choice. and sometimes keeping in touch with that person is more important than my preferences. oh, and for many people i do not want to share my phone number, which limits the available messaging platforms we can still use. we'll be lucky if there is one. I’m sure there are some number of people out there who only use Faceboo…

interoperability is about more than just solving some edge cases:

https://umatechnology.org/eu-could-force-whatsapp-messenger-...

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#123

Post by laweijfmvo »

nhinck2 wrote: post #57

I wish I could make youtube default to the subscriber behaviour.

1. Subscribe to what you want to see 2. Bookmark the “your subscriptions” page; don’t visit the home page 2a. Although if you disable watch history, youtube tries to punish you by blanking out the “home” page. I consider that a good thing. 3. Use an ad blocker to hide the comments and side bar (recommended videos)

That’s pretty much what I do. Discoverability happens off-site, which might be a hindrance for you, but I don’t necessarily want more stuff to watch for the sake of more stuff to watch.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#124

Post by suddenlybananas »

richwater wrote: post #112
suddenlybananas wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bars are heavily, heavily regulated actually. You could have chosen a better example.

They're heavily regulated but not regarding what liqueur and beer they have to offer...which is exactly what OP was comparing it to.

Actually, in many places there are regulations on these things. For example, in France, they are legally obligated to serve several non-alcoholic drinks if they serve beer and wine.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#125

Post by psychoslave »

bitpush wrote: post #43
55555 wrote: post #20

Please for the love of god make it a legal requirement that messaging must be made available as a separate app without addictive feeds. Or make it such that users can disable the feed in settings. We need to be able to message our friends without seeing a feed without having to convert all of our friends to a new platform.

I don't know why you want a government agency to dictate product strategy.

From a government point of view, it makes sense to jump in when the product is a psy-ops at societal level, doesn’t it?

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#126

Post by troupo »

richwater wrote: post #112
suddenlybananas wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bars are heavily, heavily regulated actually. You could have chosen a better example.

They're heavily regulated but not regarding what liqueur and beer they have to offer...which is exactly what OP was comparing it to.

> but not regarding what liqueur and beer they have to offer

Try selling moonshine you brewed under the counter, and you'll quickly learn how much regulation there is.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#127

Post by lucianbr »

inetknght wrote: post #47
mglazebrook wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt they will meet the deadline or care over 5mill. It just is pennies to them.

The thing about ignoring courts' orders is... well, courts don't exactly look favorably on people who ignore them. Looking forward to court's round 2, then.

They are not going to ignore it. They are going to appeal it with a hundred lawyers and a truckload of documents with arguments, and somehow get it watered down. This is what it looks like from my pov anyway.

I think courts are generally swayed by many lawyer-hours and many legal-sounding-documents, because the judges are law professionals too, and naturally they think the profession is admirable, and so is doing so much legal analysis.

Maybe the judges in NL are better than that, what do I know.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#128

Post by gnramires »

duxup wrote: post #99
Workaccount2 wrote: post #68

They need to just ban the ad model and make subscriptions (including free with no ads, if the provider wants it) mandatory. I don't think people understand how the economics of these apps (and websites) work, and it's been so long now that their incorrect assumptions (the feeds are free and the greedy providers shove ads in them) have turned into bedrock beliefs. You pay for instagram with your personal data, which i…

I don't disagree about the structure problems with apps and sites that are free with ads. I do worry that without that free option users just simply wouldn't ever try anything new and just stay where they are new. If everything costs money to move ... I worry nobody moves and everything stagnates. Facebook and similar, now in an even stronger position. Users, for worse, like it this way and make free with ads the bes…

I think another model could help here. Like an automatic/anonymous micropayment when you access a website. This could be a fraction of your internet subscription reserved for micropayments. It should be possible, and cryptocurrencies aren't necessary either (although similar cryptographic constructions may be used, no need for proof of work).

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#129

Post by troupo »

thahajemni wrote: post #44
hsuduebc2 wrote: post #12

As a European, I’m glad that the influence of big, potentially dangerous companies is being kept in check. From the start of October, Meta is completely switching off political ads and now I can look forward to my feed stopping with tabloids, politics and Russian propaganda and going back to technical curiosities and capybaras.

I, as a European, am worried that these rulings, regulations, and the prevailing mindset will lead to companies leaving and result in technological stagnation, due to our inability to compete with global markets. Of course, there is something to be said about the dangers, effectiveness, and societal impact of social media. But companies should have the right to decide how they conduct their business. They should also…

> I, as a European, am worried that these rulings, regulations, and the prevailing mindset will lead to companies leaving and result in technological stagnation

If your "technological progress" is dependent on algorithmic feeds and pervasive tracking, good riddance.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#130

Post by sumeno »

rightbyte wrote: post #106
jfengel wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people more or less understand that. Nobody likes ads. Everyone realizes that the ads they're seeing are targeted. But I think every web designer knows that putting even the slightest barrier between the user and the content drives away vast numbers of people. Making them enter a credit card -- even if you told them it would never be charged -- would send enormous numbers away. Many won't even create a free a…

> Everyone realizes that the ads they're seeing are targeted. Really? It took me until like 2012-2013 to realize Google searches stalked me to other websites. Then again much critics at that time of big tech was disregarded as lunatic crackpots. And nowadays your are a crackpot if you claim they are not spying on you. I guess that matters.

If anything people overestimate the amount of tracking since the average person still thinks their phones are giving them ads based on what they say
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