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NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

bitsoffreedom.nl

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Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#101

Post by lucumo »

mattashii wrote: post #2

Judgement (dutch): https://www.bitsoffreedom.nl/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/2025... The judgement requires Meta to change their platforms within 2 weeks so that the user's choice is persistent. If not implemented in 2 weeks, there is a daily penalty of €100'000, up to a maximum of €5 million.

Note that the penalty for non-compliance will be forfeited to Bits of Freedom. It's not like a traffic fine that has to be paid to the government.

In Dutch this is called a "last onder dwangsom": an injuctive order enforced by a conditional fine.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#102

Post by suddenlybananas »

whalesalad wrote: post #96

This is government overreach. These are novelty/fun apps. They are not critical infrastructure or needed in any way. This would be like a court ordering a local bar to serve more than just beer and wine, to accomodate people who like sake and soju. You have free choice to use the social platforms that you want to use. Really don't understand this kind of action tbh.

Bars are heavily, heavily regulated actually. You could have chosen a better example.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#103

Post by [deleted] »

jfengel wrote: post #84
Workaccount2 wrote: post #68

They need to just ban the ad model and make subscriptions (including free with no ads, if the provider wants it) mandatory. I don't think people understand how the economics of these apps (and websites) work, and it's been so long now that their incorrect assumptions (the feeds are free and the greedy providers shove ads in them) have turned into bedrock beliefs. You pay for instagram with your personal data, which i…

I think people more or less understand that. Nobody likes ads. Everyone realizes that the ads they're seeing are targeted. But I think every web designer knows that putting even the slightest barrier between the user and the content drives away vast numbers of people. Making them enter a credit card -- even if you told them it would never be charged -- would send enormous numbers away. Many won't even create a free a…

[deleted]

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#105

Post by mattashii »

munchlax wrote: post #87
thahajemni wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, as a European, am worried that these rulings, regulations, and the prevailing mindset will lead to companies leaving and result in technological stagnation, due to our inability to compete with global markets. Of course, there is something to be said about the dangers, effectiveness, and societal impact of social media. But companies should have the right to decide how they conduct their business. They should also…

The defendant in the verdict is called "Facebook Netherlands B.V." I guess they're writing the paperwork to cut off that particular subdivision as we speak.

Facebook Nederland B.V. is just one of the defendants; the other defendants are Meta Platforms Ireland (based in Ireland), and Meta Platforms Inc. (the main company, based in the USA)

The Dutch subsidiary has been acquitted, as it only managed advertisement income, not the app design.

Meta Platforms Inc. has been acquitted, as it itself doesn't directly provide apps or services in Europe (nor the Netherlands) - legally that's managed by Meta Platforms Ireland and so not Inc.'s responsibility.

Meta Platforms Ireland has been ordered to implement these changes, enforced by the up to 5 million euro fine (see pages 20 and 21 in the verdict)

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#106

Post by rightbyte »

jfengel wrote: post #84
Workaccount2 wrote: post #68

They need to just ban the ad model and make subscriptions (including free with no ads, if the provider wants it) mandatory. I don't think people understand how the economics of these apps (and websites) work, and it's been so long now that their incorrect assumptions (the feeds are free and the greedy providers shove ads in them) have turned into bedrock beliefs. You pay for instagram with your personal data, which i…

I think people more or less understand that. Nobody likes ads. Everyone realizes that the ads they're seeing are targeted. But I think every web designer knows that putting even the slightest barrier between the user and the content drives away vast numbers of people. Making them enter a credit card -- even if you told them it would never be charged -- would send enormous numbers away. Many won't even create a free a…

> Everyone realizes that the ads they're seeing are targeted.

Really? It took me until like 2012-2013 to realize Google searches stalked me to other websites.

Then again much critics at that time of big tech was disregarded as lunatic crackpots. And nowadays your are a crackpot if you claim they are not spying on you. I guess that matters.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#107

Post by komali2 »

Aurornis wrote: post #42
55555 wrote: post #20

Please for the love of god make it a legal requirement that messaging must be made available as a separate app without addictive feeds. Or make it such that users can disable the feed in settings. We need to be able to message our friends without seeing a feed without having to convert all of our friends to a new platform.

> We need to be able to message our friends without seeing a feed without having to convert all of our friends to a new platform. Those people are in the app because of the social features and the feed in the first place. The messaging features were built on top of the platform. Requiring companies to make and maintain a separate app entirely if their product has messaging features is an unreasonable requirement. If…

> Requiring companies to make and maintain a separate app entirely if their product has messaging features is an unreasonable requirement.

I disagree. I think it's more than reasonable. Facebook designs its features with dark UX to cause addiction, it's not about self control, it's about Facebook engaging in anti-human behavior.

It's reasonable to use the State to force a corporation that makes tens of billions of dollars of profit a year to behave in a way that's beneficial to people. The corporation will be fine, it's air conditioned and listening to its favorite music.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#108

Post by seanhunter »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #79
55555 wrote: post #20

Please for the love of god make it a legal requirement that messaging must be made available as a separate app without addictive feeds. Or make it such that users can disable the feed in settings. We need to be able to message our friends without seeing a feed without having to convert all of our friends to a new platform.

Why not just use SMS messages? No feeds, literally all phones support them, with MMS you also get photos and stuff... you don't need another party involved for the messages to work, and you're already paying for them.

This is something I genuinely don't understand. Whatsapp used to have a reason to exist because the SMS experience on android was pretty bad. That's not the case any more.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#109

Post by komali2 »

bitpush wrote: post #43
55555 wrote: post #20

Please for the love of god make it a legal requirement that messaging must be made available as a separate app without addictive feeds. Or make it such that users can disable the feed in settings. We need to be able to message our friends without seeing a feed without having to convert all of our friends to a new platform.

I don't know why you want a government agency to dictate product strategy.

Because things in the State should help people, not exploit them. If the thing, in this case, a corporation, is harming people, why not force it to stop?

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#110

Post by ajkjk »

jfengel wrote: post #84
Workaccount2 wrote: post #68

They need to just ban the ad model and make subscriptions (including free with no ads, if the provider wants it) mandatory. I don't think people understand how the economics of these apps (and websites) work, and it's been so long now that their incorrect assumptions (the feeds are free and the greedy providers shove ads in them) have turned into bedrock beliefs. You pay for instagram with your personal data, which i…

I think people more or less understand that. Nobody likes ads. Everyone realizes that the ads they're seeing are targeted. But I think every web designer knows that putting even the slightest barrier between the user and the content drives away vast numbers of people. Making them enter a credit card -- even if you told them it would never be charged -- would send enormous numbers away. Many won't even create a free a…

> putting even the slightest barrier between the user and the content drives away vast numbers of people

Dear god, yes, please, good. Pass laws that force the bloated companies to lose users. Yes. World = better.

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