I love Teller.
That said, you can't steal an idea. It's physically impossible. The original idea-haver still has it.
Teller on theft in magic
51–60 of 80 posts
Re: Teller on theft in magic
#52Gerard Bakardy reuploaded his version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkq4XfFgCYs The style couldn't be more different. The "effect" is the same, but the style is light years apart. I don't believe you should be able to copyright an effect, and it's likely he's not even using the same effect. I understand Teller wants to protect an idea he came up with, but I think it's protected simply by the grace and beauty of his…
I understand Teller wants to protect an idea he came up with Given how much Penn & Teller built their careers on exposing the tricks of other magicians who had guarded their secrets for decades (and getting a lot of stage magicians made at the duo), it's pretty ironic for Teller to now decide he wants government protection for a trick of his. Disclaimer: esquire.com is not working for me right now so I haven't read t…
I don't know about that.
The Cups and Balls is a classic, and everybody knows, or can easily find out, how it's done. And then they take it and turn that on its head, by doing a routine around "we're going to show you exactly how the trick works, and still amaze you with it". Which is, well, magic.
And in general, a lot of their "exposures" follow that patten. They're much more about artistry and that kind of next-level thing where showing the "secret" doesn't detract from but in fact adds to the effect.
Re: Teller on theft in magic
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
The magician's creed is a lot like an open source license with the restriction of attribution. If attribution is given then copying is considered respectable, whereas if it's not then it's considered theft.
Copying is not considered respectable if attribution is given... The general rule is you are to ask the individual you are copying if you can copy them in which case they will say no unless they sell the trick, or you can argue that you independently came up with the trick, and the person agrees with you. Copying is always considered "theft" even with attribution unless there's specific permission. There is a case wh…
Different areas have different views. Chefs attribute sometimes, and there is no copyright on recipes (there is on the words if writtem, but not on the substance). Copying is considered normal.
Re: Teller on theft in magic
#54this article is almost unreadably poorly written
tried twice, couldn't finish it
Re: Teller on theft in magic
#55There's also an interesting parallel with standup comedy. At least here in the UK, the stealing of jokes by mainstream comedians from alternative performers is — while not accepted — viewed by the victims of the theft as just one of those things that happens, something to be ridiculed rather than something that can or should be fought.
I've heard of some comedians resorting to violence when some of their lines were "stolen" by other comics.
Stewart Lee has a brilliantly cutting routine about Joe Pasquale's joke-stealing, if anyone hasn't seen it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YE9Kthyaco
Re: Teller on theft in magic
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
I understand Teller wants to protect an idea he came up with Given how much Penn & Teller built their careers on exposing the tricks of other magicians who had guarded their secrets for decades (and getting a lot of stage magicians made at the duo), it's pretty ironic for Teller to now decide he wants government protection for a trick of his. Disclaimer: esquire.com is not working for me right now so I haven't read t…
I don't know about that. The Cups and Balls is a classic, and everybody knows, or can easily find out, how it's done. And then they take it and turn that on its head, by doing a routine around "we're going to show you exactly how the trick works, and still amaze you with it". Which is, well, magic. And in general, a lot of their "exposures" follow that patten. They're much more about artistry and that kind of next-le…
How did it become a classic though? Through people copying whoever first thought of it. Then copying and copying on.
Re: Teller on theft in magic
#57Gerard Bakardy reuploaded his version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkq4XfFgCYs The style couldn't be more different. The "effect" is the same, but the style is light years apart. I don't believe you should be able to copyright an effect, and it's likely he's not even using the same effect. I understand Teller wants to protect an idea he came up with, but I think it's protected simply by the grace and beauty of his…
As other people have mentioned Penn & Teller don't have a problem with people copying their ideas & improving them or performing them in a different way.
The problem here is that the chap was then SELLING the trick for thousands of dollars, that's where Teller started to have a problem with it.
Re: Teller on theft in magic
#58There's also an interesting parallel with standup comedy. At least here in the UK, the stealing of jokes by mainstream comedians from alternative performers is — while not accepted — viewed by the victims of the theft as just one of those things that happens, something to be ridiculed rather than something that can or should be fought.
One name comes to mind when you mention the above: Robin Williams. There is still talk of him paying off comics after indirectly doing their material on stage or on television.
Re: Teller on theft in magic
#59I think the most common argument I hear against IP protections for software is that so much of it is obvious, or incremental. We have companies patenting and suing over techniques which are considered common knowledge by many programmers. How silly was it that Oracle's recent huge lawsuit ended up hinging on a range check function? But is that the same as a masterful magic trick? And if not, should we treat it the sa…
And fundamental. I've always considered any software patents to be a farce because they are based on the fundamentals of the underlying microprocessor hardware and code. I would not take issue with copyrights on programs but not patents. To patent software would be like patenting books where, like books, you are piecing together the fundamental words of a language to create a work.
A copyright makes far more sense than a patent.
Re: Teller on theft in magic
#60Gerard Bakardy reuploaded his version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkq4XfFgCYs The style couldn't be more different. The "effect" is the same, but the style is light years apart. I don't believe you should be able to copyright an effect, and it's likely he's not even using the same effect. I understand Teller wants to protect an idea he came up with, but I think it's protected simply by the grace and beauty of his…
Judging by the description of the video in the article, this isn't the same video.