Live data from Hacker News

California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

gov.ca.gov

111–120 of 232 posts

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#111
post #61

> For purposes of this chapter: > (a) “Artificial intelligence model” means an engineered or machine-based system that varies in its level of autonomy and that can, for explicit or implicit objectives, infer from the input it receives how to generate outputs that can influence physical or virtual environments. I was curious how California was going to define AI since it's basically a marketing term as of now. Seems l…

So, like my coffee maker?

Yeah, that's regulated now by CalCompute. Hope it's compliant!

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What else I could possibly do if complying is not technically possible?

It’s not technically possible to publish a couple of documents?

Which documents? Which are comprehensively listed where? With what indemnification for a good faith effort?

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hint: It's low because the tech companies are already in agreement with the legislation. This is a huge win compared to a blanket regulatory push.

I want to hope so. They'll agree, until the bubble is prone to bursting and then suddenly that fine might be better to eat.

There is no bubble. Your priors are not serving you well here.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#114
post #94

This is censorship with extra steps. Look at what the bill actually requires. Companies have to publish frameworks showing how they "mitigate catastrophic risk" and implement "safety protocols" for "dangerous capabilities." That sounds reasonable until you realize the government is now defining what counts as dangerous and requiring private companies to build systems that restrict those outputs. The Supreme Court alr…

> Add in the narrow exceptions like child porn and true threats, and that's it. You're contradicting yourself. On the one hand you're saying that governments shouldn't have the power to define "safety", but you're in favor of having protections against "true threats". How do you define "true threats"? Whatever definition you may have, surely something like it can be codified into law. The questions then are: how loos…

There's no contradiction. "True threats" is already a narrow exception defined by decades of Supreme Court precedent. It means statements where the speaker intends to communicate a serious expression of intent to commit unlawful violence against a person or group. That's it. It's not a blank check for the government to decide what counts as dangerous.

Brandenburg gives us the standard: speech can only be restricted if it's directed to inciting imminent lawless action and is likely to produce that action. True threats, child porn, fraud, these are all narrow, well-defined categories that survived strict scrutiny. They don't support creating broad new regulatory authority to filter outputs based on "dangerous capabilities."

You're asking how I define true threats. I don't. The Supreme Court does. That's the point. We have a constitutional framework for unprotected speech. It's extremely limited. The government can't just expand it because they think AI is scary.

"This technology is different" is what every regulator says about every new technology. Print was different. Radio was different. The internet was different. The First Amendment applies regardless. If AI enables someone to commit a crime, prosecute the crime. You don't get to regulate the information itself.

And yes, I want the government to stay out of mandating content restrictions. Not because I trust corporations, but because I trust the government even less with the power to define what information is too dangerous to share. You say governments are meant to serve citizens. Tell that to every government that's used "safety" as justification for censorship.

The issue isn't whether we need any AI regulation. It's whether we want to establish that the government can force companies to implement filtering systems based on the state's assessment of what capabilities are dangerous. That's the precedent SB 53 creates. Once that infrastructure exists, it will be used for whatever the government decides needs "safety mitigations" next.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#115
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm? Creating new models is clearly adding wealth to the world, and it wouldn't terribly surprise me if a lot of source material (e.g. scanned books or recorded music) is older than the people working on models. The history of copyright is basically a perfect example of rent-seeking.

Creating new models doesn’t require taking content without any compensation. That’s the basic flaw in any argument around necessity.

No, but society has no reason to grant monopolies on 50 year old publications (e.g. textbooks or news articles written or songs recorded prior to 1975), and the changes that were made to copyright law to extend it into multiple generations were actual rent-seeking. i.e. manipulating public policy to transfer wealth from others to you rather than creating wealth. Going with the original 28 year compromise from a time when publishing was much more expensive, anything prior to 1997 would be free for anyone to use for any purpose with no expectation of compensation. We'd all be far richer culturally if we had this base to freely build upon instead of having the last 100 years stolen.

Likewise much of the most important information to want to train on (research literature) was just straight up stolen from the public that paid for its creation already.

By contrast, the models being created from these works are obviously useful to people today. They are clearly a form of new wealth generation. The open-weights models are even an equitable way of doing so, and are competitive with the top proprietary models. Saying the model creators need to pay the people monopolizing generations-old work is the rent-seeking behavior.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not technically possible to publish a couple of documents?

Which documents? Which are comprehensively listed where? With what indemnification for a good faith effort?

that's a ridiculous stance to take, and you could take it all day -- regulations change on the net daily, it's a full time job being totally compliant, that's why people make money (..or attempt to..) while doing it.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#117
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to hope so. They'll agree, until the bubble is prone to bursting and then suddenly that fine might be better to eat.

There is no bubble. Your priors are not serving you well here.

Historically speaking, people saying "history won't repeat this time, it's different" have a pretty bad track record. Do we remember what the definition of "insanity" is?

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#118

> For purposes of this chapter: > (a) “Artificial intelligence model” means an engineered or machine-based system that varies in its level of autonomy and that can, for explicit or implicit objectives, infer from the input it receives how to generate outputs that can influence physical or virtual environments. I was curious how California was going to define AI since it's basically a marketing term as of now. Seems l…

I'm in disagreement with others here: this definition matches no technology in existence, because AIs can't "infer" anything from their input. Likewise, we can't really prove humans can either.

You'd have an argument if 'inference' hadn't become the standard term for "output from a weighted model" for a generation.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#119
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which documents? Which are comprehensively listed where? With what indemnification for a good faith effort?

that's a ridiculous stance to take, and you could take it all day -- regulations change on the net daily , it's a full time job being totally compliant, that's why people make money (..or attempt to..) while doing it.

Even better for the company if those people have worked for or have friends in regulatory agency. To, uh, make sure they did it right.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#120

This is censorship with extra steps. Look at what the bill actually requires. Companies have to publish frameworks showing how they "mitigate catastrophic risk" and implement "safety protocols" for "dangerous capabilities." That sounds reasonable until you realize the government is now defining what counts as dangerous and requiring private companies to build systems that restrict those outputs. The Supreme Court alr…

LLMs don't have rights. LLMs are tools, and the state can regulate tools. Humans acting on behalf of these companies can still, if they felt the bizarre desire to, publish assembly instructions for bioweapons on the company blog.

I have rights. I want to use whatever tool or source I want - LLMs, news, Wikipedia, search engines. There’s no acceptable excuse for censorship of any of these, as it violates my rights as an individual.
Post reply on HN