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UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

petition.parliament.uk

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Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#71

Post by mhh__ »

danaris wrote: post #41
AJRF wrote: post #21

The labour government can not be challenged in any serious way until the next election in 4 years. Petitions don't really do anything, they will just say "no" to what the people ask for and move on with their agenda. It is disheartening to see this country follow the same path the US took, it seems as our politics become more polarised, the team sports aspect means we start seeing parties push through agendas while p…

The really rough part is that while the Democratic Party in the US is a weak slightly-left-of-center party, the Labour Party in the UK is basically a right-of-center party with decreasing amounts of daylight between them and the Tories. In particular, there is no major political party in the UK that supports trans rights, which is devastating to that community there. (On the plus side, so far as I can tell, with the…

There are (almost) no fascists in reform. You think the fascists will join a party whose second in command is "Muhammad Ziauddin Yusuf"? They're all in Homeland or other serious nationalist parties if at all.

Reform are basically a joke amongst the "real" right (by which I don't mean neo-nazis but anyone with any actual beliefs)

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#72

Post by dazc »

panstromek wrote: post #50

I don't understand the problem. How is this different from all other identifiers, physical or digital, that most goverments already have?

The likelihood that it will become tied to your bank account, credit file, etc in a way which isn't currently possible with physical forms of id such as passports and driving licences.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#73

Post by Arch-TK »

raesene9 wrote: post #60
Arch-TK wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reduce dependencies on non-UK orgs by increasing dependencies on Google and Apple ... which are ... hold on a minute...

TBH the mobile duopoly isn't a problem specific to the UK gov, and plenty of the systems already in use which have a mobile component already have that dependency, so I don't think it really gets any worse if you had a digital ID. Indeed if done with physical smart card + reader, it would reduce the requirement for mobile devices, allowing for people unhappy with their presence to avoid them :)

I currently live in the UK, and I am not significantly restricted from anything (banking, ISAs, investments, healthcare, etc) for refusing to use a Google approved build of Android.

Moreover, I actually on principle refuse to make myself dependant on my phone for these things, which means that (at a small convenience cost) I don't have any banking apps, or investment apps, or healthcare apps, or whatever).

My phone is strictly a general computing device and I on principle only permit a technology into my life if it doesn't impose special restrictions on the hardware/software it works with.

So if the UK government creates a digital ID app which only runs on a phone and which potentially only runs on google/apple approved phone (this is e.g. the requirement imposed by google pay), then that would be unprecedented.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#74

Post by Barrin92 »

raesene9 wrote: post #46
ChocolateGod wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're supporting a specific group that went into a military base and damaged military equipment (that was irrelevant to palestine/israel), those people going out with those T-Shirts know exactly why the group was proscribed and are seeking to be arrested, why are we shocked they got arrested, they wanted it.

Put it this way, the UK managed to get through the troubles, which had a lot of events far more serious than what Palestine action have done, without needing this level of policing of free speech. The point I was making is that successive UK gov's are tending towards authoritarianism, the current one included.

If you're trying to convince Brits not to enact these policies "you guys made it through The Troubles" is a really bad argument unless you're very unfamiliar with the body count and terror and the public perception of that period in British history. (it included some fifty thousand casualties and sixteen thousand bombings)

An advocate of these policies would quite literally argue that not getting into something like The Troubles is the point and a lot of people would agree if that was what is on the horizon.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#75

Post by dazc »

CaptainOfCoit wrote: post #28
poszlem wrote: post #19

Have any of those petitions ever changed anything? I might as well shout 'I don’t want a digital ID' down the toilet, it’d be just as effective. And that’s coming from someone who’s against digital IDs.

> Have any of those petitions ever changed anything? What's the alternative? Not do anything and hope things change by themselves? Has that worked in the past? Is doing something than better nothing?

Well, 2 million plus have signed the petition and 90% of those people will go along with the scheme when it is introduced - because it will be convenient to do so.

Tell me how you plan to survive living off-grid whilst standing firm against it.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#76

Post by Symbiote »

danaris wrote: post #41
AJRF wrote: post #21

The labour government can not be challenged in any serious way until the next election in 4 years. Petitions don't really do anything, they will just say "no" to what the people ask for and move on with their agenda. It is disheartening to see this country follow the same path the US took, it seems as our politics become more polarised, the team sports aspect means we start seeing parties push through agendas while p…

The really rough part is that while the Democratic Party in the US is a weak slightly-left-of-center party, the Labour Party in the UK is basically a right-of-center party with decreasing amounts of daylight between them and the Tories. In particular, there is no major political party in the UK that supports trans rights, which is devastating to that community there. (On the plus side, so far as I can tell, with the…

The Liberal Democrats seem (from a quick read of just this article) to have thrown out a proposal to water down an existing trans rights policy.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy0vvle9w7zo

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#77

Post by seabass-labrax »

scrlk wrote: post #37
dijit wrote: post #3

As well as the Estonia eID system works (aside from that time it got hacked[0] and that other time they leaked all the photos[1]) and how well a digital (non-government) system works in Scandinavia… I have to say… As a Dual British/Swedish Citizen, I really do not trust the UK government. They have proven over and over and over, that at every opportunity presented they will increase their own authority. I don’t belie…

> They have proven over and over and over, that at every opportunity presented they will increase their own authority. I don’t believe I have personally witnessed any other advanced economy that so ardently marches towards authoritarianism. This has been a slow 111 year project. See the opening of A. J. P. Taylor's English History 1914–1945 : > Until August 1914 a sensible, law-abiding Englishman could pass through l…

I think even 111 years is being too cautious. One only needs to look as far as the numerous vagrancy laws in England to see how a citizen might be prevented from living "where he liked and as he liked". Persecution of minorities including 'witches', Gypsies and Jews has been a continual theme. England has had banned books, even banned translations of the Holy Bible.

The Edwardian era was a very unusual period of liberality, I'll agree. But at least in that quote, Taylor is making some strange omissions that I hardly think are accidental: for a start, where is the mention of women's suffrage, introduced for the first time ever after the Great War?

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#78

Post by dazc »

redeyedtreefrog wrote: post #20

France, Germany, Sweden, Estonia and India already have government id. However, this being hackernews there will never be a link to a well researched article on the pros and cons of introducing id cards (digital or otherwise), only conspiracy theories and confident declarations that id cards are a surefire symbol of authoritarian states. I don't know what I think, I lack sufficient knowledge to have an opinion. But I…

The root of the issue is a mistrust of a Govt that has suddenly decided to rush through something, that was never discussed prior to the election, on the grounds that it will tackle illegal immigration, which it clearly will not.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#79

Post by oncallthrow »

teamonkey wrote: post #54
cortic wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a criminal offense in the UK to use insulting words in public, or to send any message online that anyone could find insulting or offensive (whether any one does or not is irreverent). The Online Safety Act and Hate Crime Provision have extended these somewhat into the realms of 1984. But the police do tend to use them sparingly.

> It is a criminal offense in the UK to use insulting words in public, or to send any message online that anyone could find insulting or offensive (whether any one does or not is irreverent). This is categorically untrue.

The latter part at least is true. Sending "grossly offensive" messages is illegal under the Malicious Communications Act 1988 and the Communications Act 2003, specifically Section 127:

> a person is guilty of an offence if he—

> (a)sends by means of a public electronic communications network a message or other matter that is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character; or

> (b)causes any such message or matter to be so sent.

I suspect the former is also true, but am not well-read in that area

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#80

Post by skeletal88 »

dijit wrote: post #3

As well as the Estonia eID system works (aside from that time it got hacked[0] and that other time they leaked all the photos[1]) and how well a digital (non-government) system works in Scandinavia… I have to say… As a Dual British/Swedish Citizen, I really do not trust the UK government. They have proven over and over and over, that at every opportunity presented they will increase their own authority. I don’t belie…

Our system in Estonia works well.

I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre.

Some have explained it with a lack of trust between citizens and the country.

But without such digital id it is impossible to have such digital government services as we have here. The government services need to verify and autheticate the citizen, so they only access their own data and not someone who has the same name and birth date by accident.

I don't see how such a system gives the government more powers. It already has all the data on its citizens, but it is spread out, fragmented, stored with multiple conflicting versions, maybe some of it is stored in databases where no one cares about security, etc.

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