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UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

petition.parliament.uk

51–60 of 373 posts

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#51

Signed, but I guess it is gonna be one of those where they keep asking until they get the answer they want. Where is the counter bill to block all future attempts of such privacy invading bills. Can the public draft new legislation like that? If so please ensures it blocks any dependency on smart phone ownership or other bigtech services.

Unlike the ludicrous US system with a "written constitution" that basically means a handful of unelected people get to overide all laws and say they're just "interpreting" as they ignore the plain words, the clear intent or any other obstacle to their Imperial Decree, the Parliament is literally Sovereign.

So, if Parliament passes a Law tomorrow, miraculously by unanimous consent saying "The UK shall never have Digital ID" and insisting it denies itself any ability to make a law introducing such a thing - at any point it can also, despite that, pass law making a Digital ID by the narrowest majority, for example the day after.

In fact not so very long ago this exact farce played out. The Liberal Democrats were in a situation where they could either join a coalition with the larger Conservative party and form a government or they could say "No" and likely the populace has to do another election. Popular understanding was that British people hate elections, and so if you insist on another one they will punish you, the Lib Dems did not want that. But, they were concerned that the Tories would betray them (predictably)

So hence the 2011 "Fixed Term Parliaments Act". But although the Act says you can't just end parliament without a term ending, obviously Parliament can just pass a new law saying nah, changed our mind, which is what the 2019 "Early Parliamentary General Election Act" does and then the 2022 "Dissolution and Calling of Parliament Act" undid the whole pointless mess.

Parliamentary sovereignty might be able to take on limits via some sort of tradition over a long period. For example perhaps if Parliament had stuck with that Fixed Term rule for a few hundred years - it'd settle as "Just how it is" and there'd be a serious argument that you can't just pass a law saying just this once as an exception we'll hold elections early. But "It was a few years ago" clearly doesn't cut it and that's what you would need for such a "counter bill".

The best you can hope for is a pledge by politicians, which is worth slightly less than a piece of paper you wrote it on.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#52
post #3

As well as the Estonia eID system works (aside from that time it got hacked[0] and that other time they leaked all the photos[1]) and how well a digital (non-government) system works in Scandinavia… I have to say… As a Dual British/Swedish Citizen, I really do not trust the UK government. They have proven over and over and over, that at every opportunity presented they will increase their own authority. I don’t belie…

The thing is, to me, the powers of the government to require more identification for different things is orthogonal to the idea of digital ID. We already have to identify ourselves in a variety of circumstances (e.g. mortgages, bank accounts, voting, using "adult" websites etc), and the gov. can get the information from various third parties on demand already. Implementing those requirements didn't depend on there be…

Reduce dependencies on non-UK orgs by increasing dependencies on Google and Apple ... which are ... hold on a minute...

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#53
post #41
post #21

The labour government can not be challenged in any serious way until the next election in 4 years. Petitions don't really do anything, they will just say "no" to what the people ask for and move on with their agenda. It is disheartening to see this country follow the same path the US took, it seems as our politics become more polarised, the team sports aspect means we start seeing parties push through agendas while p…

The really rough part is that while the Democratic Party in the US is a weak slightly-left-of-center party, the Labour Party in the UK is basically a right-of-center party with decreasing amounts of daylight between them and the Tories. In particular, there is no major political party in the UK that supports trans rights, which is devastating to that community there. (On the plus side, so far as I can tell, with the…

It's becoming increasingly confusing to me who any of the parties actually represent.

The more left leaning people I know are foaming at the mouth over how Labour have operated since being elected, all moderates (outside London) I know tend to lean Conservative (though that party seems to be AWOL since the election) and the only party I hear that is gaining any popularity is Reform, and they are doing so at an alarming pace.

4 years is a long time, but it seems inevitable its a two horse race between Reform (given polls I have to presume not everyone who votes for them is a racist twit) and Labour, and Labour seem hell bent on alienating any one who isn't centre-right, and they have to contend with Reform for those votes. Maybe it's politicking to a degree I don't understand, but it seems like a very odd strategy.

For those outside the UK look at this chart to see how fast Reform are rising:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_U...

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#54
post #29
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much you're loading into "simply practicing free speech".

It is a criminal offense in the UK to use insulting words in public, or to send any message online that anyone could find insulting or offensive (whether any one does or not is irreverent). The Online Safety Act and Hate Crime Provision have extended these somewhat into the realms of 1984. But the police do tend to use them sparingly.

> It is a criminal offense in the UK to use insulting words in public, or to send any message online that anyone could find insulting or offensive (whether any one does or not is irreverent).

This is categorically untrue.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#56
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, English people still somehow tie their identity to the UK Government somehow. Scotland will not be granted another independence vote for at least 15 years, despite the last one being build upon a house of lies and nobody knows anything about what the Welsh think. I do think we’re witnessing the collapse of the UK, but more like a Roman Empire collapse - as in it’s happening over decades. Dying with a whimper, not…

Northern Ireland also exists!

Sorry, just like every politician and mainland company: I forgot about Northern Ireland :(

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#57
We need to clearly define some stuff around Digital ID, since people seem to be using the term for distinctly different things.

There's (1) eGovernment platforms, where you can handle government-related business online using a login. There's (2) Digital ID cards, where you can use your phone in place of a physical ID or drivers license in real life. And then there's (3) full EU-proposed-style Digital ID, where government wants to act as a SSO provider for private online services, like social media.

Yet someone can be rightfully criticizing (3), as it would pose a major risk to online privacy, and someone else barges in with "here in [place] we have a great eGovernment platform which is very useful for filing your taxes online, I don't see why you'd oppose that". Not specifically in this thread, it's been noticeable over almost all Digital ID-related discussions in the past. Please be considerate of that.

This appears to be about (2), with the catch of it being made mandatory for anyone who wants to be employed in the UK.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#59
post #15
post #3

As well as the Estonia eID system works (aside from that time it got hacked[0] and that other time they leaked all the photos[1]) and how well a digital (non-government) system works in Scandinavia… I have to say… As a Dual British/Swedish Citizen, I really do not trust the UK government. They have proven over and over and over, that at every opportunity presented they will increase their own authority. I don’t belie…

The Swedish non-government system (BankID) doesn't work well for me. My Swedish identity must not be dependent on the permission of a US company nor the US government, while BankID requires both. So far my BankID boycott is over a year old, and my resolve grows as I read more of the news.

Ask your bank for a pin machine, you can get a chip and pin machine to solve BankID challenges.

The machine itself is likely manufactured in China, but it’s of no consequence. You wouldn’t be able to communicate with me if you didn’t use chinese products at all.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#60
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, to me, the powers of the government to require more identification for different things is orthogonal to the idea of digital ID. We already have to identify ourselves in a variety of circumstances (e.g. mortgages, bank accounts, voting, using "adult" websites etc), and the gov. can get the information from various third parties on demand already. Implementing those requirements didn't depend on there be…

Reduce dependencies on non-UK orgs by increasing dependencies on Google and Apple ... which are ... hold on a minute...

TBH the mobile duopoly isn't a problem specific to the UK gov, and plenty of the systems already in use which have a mobile component already have that dependency, so I don't think it really gets any worse if you had a digital ID.

Indeed if done with physical smart card + reader, it would reduce the requirement for mobile devices, allowing for people unhappy with their presence to avoid them :)

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