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Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

reuters.com

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Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#331

Post by octo888 »

somelamer567 wrote: post #312
lelandfe wrote: post #299

I feel like governments worldwide are perennially musing “ what if we could know what everyone is doing, all the time? ”

This is a natural and unfortunate consequence of crime and foreign aggression getting increasingly borderless. As the world gets smaller, and as more and more of the world's population knows about the outside world, the more badness we face. Like it or not, our high-trust society is devolving into a low-trust society as the world opens up. Our defences must evolve -- and the current free-for-all needs to end.

Perhaps the better solution is to stop opening up and make a concerted effort to return to a high-trust society, rather than destroy privacy and go full authoritarian polite-state?

Or must we absolutely must accept eg every Nigerian, Pakistani, Syrian, Afghan, Indian etc who has a fleeting desire emigrate, else our society will collapse?

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#332

Post by noelwelsh »

matt-p wrote: post #319
astonex wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Brit can pass a RTW check without a drivers license or a passport - a paper birth certificate is also acceptable (and paper can be lost, damaged, forged), as neither a drivers license or a passport a mandatory. Getting those can be expensive for some people while this ID is free. A NI number is not ID, it's a reporting number. Lastly, a national ID is a tried and tested scheme in many, many countries and brings a l…

I appreciate that, I decided to exclude it for simplicity because obviously not everyone working here was born here :) I don't really understand why I need a Fourth (or Fifth)! National ID? I don't really get the point on reporting number, true, but it's also a UID linked to a passport or birth certificate.

Now that ID is required for voting, it's reasonable that the government provides a form of ID, for free, to all citizens. Passports cost money and not everyone has one. Same for driving licenses. It should also streamline other government services.

I think it would be simpler to repeal the ID requirement for voting. I don't believe there is any evidence of widespread voting fraud, so it adds unnecessary cost. I certainly wouldn't try to sell the ID as preventing illegal work, which is obviously ludicrous.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#333

Post by ryandrake »

Nursie wrote: post #101
gmac wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

… except that trying to out-Farage Farage (by being bastards to asylum seekers) will lose them many of their traditional supporters (who are not big on being bastards to asylum seekers) and seems unlikely to gain them many Farage supporters (why would they take some half-hearted populist bastardry when they can have the real deal?). The ‘small boats’ narrative is ludicrously over-reported here. It’s such a clear case…

I don't think any of that matters any more, the issue is so firmly in the public eye that Labour need to show that they've solved it whether it's a 'real' problem or not. > unlikely to gain them many Farage supporters Farage is polling ahead of both major parties at the moment. That support came from somewhere. To characterise all of those supporters as only interested in populist bastardry seems a bit of a surface t…

> Instead for decades now it has just tinkered at the edges, seemingly run by ambitionless accountants. Shuffling half a percent here, half a percent there, not really achieving very much but spewing vast volumes of hot air

Speaking from the other side of the pond, we can say quite confidently that the solution is not electing someone who will make reckless, bold moves. The brain trust here voted against “ambitionless, measured improvements” and for that, we got a chaotic circus.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#334

Post by whywhywhywhy »

celticninja wrote: post #181
jjgreen wrote: post #172

Before the election I was approached by a bubbly young woman who tried to persuade me to vote Labour: "No thanks, last time I did that they tried to introduce ID cards", "But that's not in our manifesto" she replied, "It wasn't the last time I voted for them either". It gives me no pleasure to be right on this.

Could you explain what it is you find so distasteful about ID cards? I mean if you have a passport then you already have an 'ID card', but I certainly don't want to take that out with me to prove my age.

>I mean if you have a passport then you already have an 'ID card',

So why do we need this digital ID then?

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#335

Post by matt-p »

astonex wrote: post #327
matt-p wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate that, I decided to exclude it for simplicity because obviously not everyone working here was born here :) I don't really understand why I need a Fourth (or Fifth)! National ID? I don't really get the point on reporting number, true, but it's also a UID linked to a passport or birth certificate.

You don't currently have any National ID. You have forms of ID, which others might not have, but none are national mandatory ID that every citizen and resident has. As such many benefits in streamlining and simplifying processes cannot be achieved when everyone has a UID as such. Imagine making a system where you used various ID formats, and you couldn't guarantee anyone had one in particular, and some people had non…

Ok then 'Government issued [photo] ID' so what if it's not a 'national ID'? They have all the data they need to tackle this. You can't get a NI number without proving who you are, if the government don't trust NI numbers (which they are minting?) then they could simply re-issue them? That would be far far easier than a new national ID.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#336

Post by [deleted] »

logifail wrote: post #72
rtpg wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anyone running e.g. a restaurant is having to essentially guess whether a potential employee is in the UK legally or not, on pain of criminal charges if they get it wrong in one direction and discrimination lawsuits if they get it wrong in the other. I don't get this. Is there nothing like some sort of number to register any tax withholding or the like? I imagine that tax authorities and immigration authorities don…

> some sort of number provided by the government There are countries where each citizen has one unique identifier (Sweden's "personnummer", Denmark's CPR). The UK is definitely not one of those! [yet] Instead there are many different identifiers, each for a different purpose, and stored in different systems which almost certainly don't talk to each other. Just for starters: NHS number for healthcare, National Insuran…

[deleted]

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#337

Post by rtpg »

ellen364 wrote: post #111
rtpg wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anyone running e.g. a restaurant is having to essentially guess whether a potential employee is in the UK legally or not, on pain of criminal charges if they get it wrong in one direction and discrimination lawsuits if they get it wrong in the other. I don't get this. Is there nothing like some sort of number to register any tax withholding or the like? I imagine that tax authorities and immigration authorities don…

To work, you need to provide a National Insurance number, which is unique and tied to certain state benefits like pension. The idea is you work, pay "national insurance" contributions and accrue "contributing years" to get a state pension later. The wrinkle is that it doesn't seem to be tied well to identity. Someone working illegally can provide an NI number that's legit but not theirs. Their work accrues to someone…

OK, this makes sense to me. Clearly I lacked some imagination on this whole front

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#339

Post by matt-p »

motbus3 wrote: post #323
matt-p wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government already have my photo for passport and driver's license, I struggle to believe that there's people here working who don't have at least a provisional license or passport of any kind.

Maybe they plan to ask Uber and deliveroo to authenticate the workers via facial recognition?

In order to drive a motorcycle or car you need a driving license which has photo ID?

Ok maybe you deliver by push bike.. but if you arrived here legally you will have a passport? If you didn't you ergo don't have the right to work here?

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#340

Post by ghusto »

aftergibson wrote: post #189

A secure, optional digital ID could be useful. But not in today’s UK. Why? Because the state has already shown it can’t be trusted with our data. - Snoopers’ Charter (Investigatory Powers Act 2016): ISPs must keep a year’s worth of records of which websites you visit. More than 40 agencies—from MI5 to the Welsh Ambulance Service—can request it. MI5 has already broken the rules and kept data it shouldn’t have. - Encry…

Was reading through your post, finding it difficult to find fault with anything you were saying, but something wasn't sitting right. And then ...

> I'm certain it's worked well in other countries

It has! In the Netherlands for example, it's just an incredibly convenient system, and if there's anything dodgy going on I'm not aware of it.

So what makes the UK so different to the Netherlands? Genuine question, because I really don't know. My only guess is that the people of the Netherlands hold their politicians to account, whereas nothing ever seems to happen to UK politicians whose corruption is so severe that they're sometimes literally criminal.

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