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CPI for all items rises 0.4% in August, 2.9% YoY; shelter and food up

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Re: CPI for all items rises 0.4% in August, 2.9% YoY; shelter and food up

#111

Post by throw0101a »

skdjbd wrote: post #92
cs702 wrote: post #53

The Fed's inflation target is a long-term stable 2% annual increase in prices of personal consumption expenditures (PCE): https://www.federalreserve.gov/economy-at-a-glance-inflation... The motivation for 2%/year is that when inflation is lower, businesses and consumers tend to hoard more cash, instead of spending or investing it, reducing economic activity, and when inflation is higher, it tends to become self-reinf…

> The motivation for 2%/year is that when inflation is lower, businesses and consumers tend to hoard more cash, instead of spending or investing it, reducing economic activity That’s what they say. In reality, inflation is a permanent tax on those who earn money through labor. Every greenback they print makes 90% of us a little poorer, and conversely makes the capital holders richer. Popular economists should be thou…

> Every greenback they print makes 90% of us a little poorer, and conversely makes the capital holders richer.

Who is "they"? No, really: how do you think "money" is actually created? Because it's not central banks like the Fed that does it:

* https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/explainers/how-is-money-crea...

* https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1905625

Further, inflation helps people in debt because past-dollars-depreciated loan values are paid off with current/future-wage-inflation-adjusted salaries.

Also, without inflation the rich could sit on literal cash (Scrouge McDuck style) and have it hold value (or gain value with deflation), which is not a good thing:

> No currency should be able to buy the same basket of goods over very long timespans through hoarding. If you want to retain the purchasing power of your money, it should participate in society via investment.

* Nick Maggiulli, https://twitter.com/dollarsanddata/status/159265180975079833...

Re: CPI for all items rises 0.4% in August, 2.9% YoY; shelter and food up

#112

Post by jeffbee »

tlogan wrote: post #16
marticode wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of construction is likely the problem. High financing costs, expensive construction material (a lot of it is imported, like Canadian wood) and disappearing construction workers is probably all contributing.

But house prices did not increase. According to Redfin, the median home sale price was up 1.2% YoY in July 2025. [1] [1] https://www.redfin.com/us-housing-market

Shelter prices roll into CPI over 12 months.

Re: CPI for all items rises 0.4% in August, 2.9% YoY; shelter and food up

#113

Post by skeezyboy »

9rx wrote: post #93
skeezyboy wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Price is not determined until a voluntary transition takes place youre talking about market value. price is definitely set before the transaction takes place. you can set the price at whatever you like.

> youre talking about market value. No. I am talking about price. Price measures what you are giving up to receive value. > price is definitely set before the transaction takes place. No. You're likely thinking of an offer. Offers are made before the transaction takes place. Offers are spoken of in terms of the price the seller (or buyer) hopes to see, but it is not yet set. Negotiation can still occur at this stage,…

> No. I am talking about price. Price measures what you are giving up to receive value.

but you said "Price is not determined until a voluntary transition takes place"

so does it happen before or after the "transition" takes place? id say price is set before, market value is what actually someone paid for it and comes after

Re: CPI for all items rises 0.4% in August, 2.9% YoY; shelter and food up

#114

Post by 9rx »

skeezyboy wrote: post #113
9rx wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> youre talking about market value. No. I am talking about price. Price measures what you are giving up to receive value. > price is definitely set before the transaction takes place. No. You're likely thinking of an offer. Offers are made before the transaction takes place. Offers are spoken of in terms of the price the seller (or buyer) hopes to see, but it is not yet set. Negotiation can still occur at this stage,…

> No. I am talking about price. Price measures what you are giving up to receive value. but you said "Price is not determined until a voluntary transition takes place" so does it happen before or after the "transition" takes place? id say price is set before, market value is what actually someone paid for it and comes after

> so does it happen before or after the "transition" takes place?

As the quote you offered says, it is measured after. I suppose theoretically in some kind of bending of space and time it could be measured during the exact instant it is created, but as we return back to reality... It certainly cannot be measured before. One cannot measure that which does not exist.

> market value is what actually someone paid for it and comes after

Value is, let's say, intrinsic. Whereas price is the measurement of it. To use an analogy, it is like the difference between distance and length.

> id say price is set before

While you are certainly welcome to make up any old random definition on the spot, given that we're talking about price within the context of CPI we know it is not "set before". CPI measurement is taken in hindsight, after consumers have already made their purchases. The values it gathers are post-sale.

Re: CPI for all items rises 0.4% in August, 2.9% YoY; shelter and food up

#115

Post by skeezyboy »

9rx wrote: post #114
skeezyboy wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No. I am talking about price. Price measures what you are giving up to receive value. but you said "Price is not determined until a voluntary transition takes place" so does it happen before or after the "transition" takes place? id say price is set before, market value is what actually someone paid for it and comes after

> so does it happen before or after the "transition" takes place? As the quote you offered says, it is measured after. I suppose theoretically in some kind of bending of space and time it could be measured during the exact instant it is created, but as we return back to reality... It certainly cannot be measured before. One cannot measure that which does not exist. > market value is what actually someone paid for it…

>As the quote you offered says, it is measured after.

i was quoting you... but you have tried to have it both ways. you said....

> Price measures what you are giving up to receive value.

notice you didnt say gave, you said giving. There is a price before the "transaction"

> Price is not determined until a voluntary transition takes place

But we had a price before we made the purchase??? If you swap price with market value in the second quote youre completely right.

Market Value is determined in this offer/sell kind of fashion precisely because it ISNT intrinsic.

Re: CPI for all items rises 0.4% in August, 2.9% YoY; shelter and food up

#116

Post by 9rx »

skeezyboy wrote: post #115
9rx wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so does it happen before or after the "transition" takes place? As the quote you offered says, it is measured after. I suppose theoretically in some kind of bending of space and time it could be measured during the exact instant it is created, but as we return back to reality... It certainly cannot be measured before. One cannot measure that which does not exist. > market value is what actually someone paid for it…

>As the quote you offered says, it is measured after. i was quoting you... but you have tried to have it both ways. you said.... > Price measures what you are giving up to receive value. notice you didnt say gave, you said giving. There is a price before the "transaction" > Price is not determined until a voluntary transition takes place But we had a price before we made the purchase??? If you swap price with market…

> but you have tried to have it both ways

Nope. Your misinterpretation may have lead to you to believe that, but intent supersedes interpretation. Which you no doubt understand given that you came back to ask for clarification given the apparent discrepancy. That would have been completely pointless otherwise.

> notice you didnt say gave, you said giving. There is a price before the "transaction"

I'm pretty sure it said "transition", not "transaction". Regardless, while it is thoughtful of you to point out what lead to your misinterpretation, we already cleared this up in a previous comment. What are you trying to add here?

> Market Value is determined in this offer/sell kind of fashion precisely because it ISNT intrinsic.

The value was always there. We just don't know what it is until we create an environment that allows us to measure it.

> If you swap price with market value

You'll have to talk to the government agencies. I don't pick the terminology used around CPI. I am not sure where you got the idea that it is up to me? And I'm especially unsure of why you'd want it to be up to me given that you recognize that I am not the clearest of communicators.

Re: CPI for all items rises 0.4% in August, 2.9% YoY; shelter and food up

#117

Post by skeezyboy »

9rx wrote: post #114
skeezyboy wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No. I am talking about price. Price measures what you are giving up to receive value. but you said "Price is not determined until a voluntary transition takes place" so does it happen before or after the "transition" takes place? id say price is set before, market value is what actually someone paid for it and comes after

> so does it happen before or after the "transition" takes place? As the quote you offered says, it is measured after. I suppose theoretically in some kind of bending of space and time it could be measured during the exact instant it is created, but as we return back to reality... It certainly cannot be measured before. One cannot measure that which does not exist. > market value is what actually someone paid for it…

>but intent supersedes interpretation

so dont worry about what i wrote, whats important was what i was thinking? fair enough

If market value is the instrinsic value, how could two separate markets get different prices for the same asset?

edit: https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/meth...

methodology states it is based on prices quoted

Re: CPI for all items rises 0.4% in August, 2.9% YoY; shelter and food up

#118

Post by skeezyboy »

9rx wrote: post #114
skeezyboy wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No. I am talking about price. Price measures what you are giving up to receive value. but you said "Price is not determined until a voluntary transition takes place" so does it happen before or after the "transition" takes place? id say price is set before, market value is what actually someone paid for it and comes after

> so does it happen before or after the "transition" takes place? As the quote you offered says, it is measured after. I suppose theoretically in some kind of bending of space and time it could be measured during the exact instant it is created, but as we return back to reality... It certainly cannot be measured before. One cannot measure that which does not exist. > market value is what actually someone paid for it…

again, the US cpi concept of price is the same as the UK one. They look at price, not transaction value you absolute numbnuts. what was all this crap about price in respect to CPI again? or were you thinking something different to what you said again?

Quote from https://www.bls.gov/cpi/questions-and-answers.htm BLS data collectors visit (in person, on the web, or using apps) or call thousands of retail stores, service establishments, rental units, and doctors' offices, all over the United States to obtain information on the prices of the thousands of items used to track and measure price changes in the CPI. We record the prices of about 80,000 items each month, representing a scientifically selected sample of the prices paid by consumers for goods and services purchased. During each call or visit, the data collector collects price data on a specific good or service that was precisely defined during an earlier visit. If the selected item is no longer available, or if there have been changes in the quality or quantity (for example, a 64-ounce container has been replaced by a 59-ounce container) of the good or service since the last time prices were collected, a new item is selected or the quality change in the current item is recorded.

Re: CPI for all items rises 0.4% in August, 2.9% YoY; shelter and food up

#119

Post by 9rx »

skeezyboy wrote: post #118
9rx wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so does it happen before or after the "transition" takes place? As the quote you offered says, it is measured after. I suppose theoretically in some kind of bending of space and time it could be measured during the exact instant it is created, but as we return back to reality... It certainly cannot be measured before. One cannot measure that which does not exist. > market value is what actually someone paid for it…

again, the US cpi concept of price is the same as the UK one. They look at price, not transaction value you absolute numbnuts. what was all this crap about price in respect to CPI again? or were you thinking something different to what you said again? Quote from https://www.bls.gov/cpi/questions-and-answers.htm BLS data collectors visit (in person, on the web, or using apps) or call thousands of retail stores, servic…

> representing a scientifically selected sample of the prices paid by consumers for goods and services purchased.

Exactly. Goods and services purchased — not goods and services left unsold because the seller wanted more than buyers were willing to pay. You cannot measure that which does not exist.

Re: CPI for all items rises 0.4% in August, 2.9% YoY; shelter and food up

#120

Post by 9rx »

skeezyboy wrote: post #117
9rx wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so does it happen before or after the "transition" takes place? As the quote you offered says, it is measured after. I suppose theoretically in some kind of bending of space and time it could be measured during the exact instant it is created, but as we return back to reality... It certainly cannot be measured before. One cannot measure that which does not exist. > market value is what actually someone paid for it…

>but intent supersedes interpretation so dont worry about what i wrote, whats important was what i was thinking? fair enough If market value is the instrinsic value, how could two separate markets get different prices for the same asset? edit: https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/meth... methodology states it is based on prices quoted

> If market value is the instrinsic value, how could two separate markets get different prices for the same asset?

Much like, returning to our analogy, how the same distance can be different depending on the observer's frame of reference.

> methodology states it is based on prices quoted

And now read the rest. For "consumer goods and services purchased".

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