Well, you set up a system that fosters competition, you get excellence as a result. DUH. Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus also have similar systems, and they punch way above their weight in math and CS: https://www.imo-official.org/country_team_r.aspx?code=RUS https://www.imo-official.org/country_team_r.aspx?code=UKR https://www.imo-official.org/country_team_r.aspx?code=BLR Ironically, the US schools do have tracking. Fo…
You get excellence in a tiny number of individuals who don't budge the statistics. The national averages are poor, and the excelling individuals are not even numerous enough to create a "fat right tail".
Why Romania excels in international Olympiads
61–70 of 251 posts
Re: Why Romania excels in international Olympiads
#62Romania is wasting taxpayer money to groom bright students and then let them leave Romania for some higher GDP country
I would downvote you, but I won't, and instead I will leave a reply. I was one of those students who left. Romania did not waste any more taxpayer money on me than on other students, and that money that it spent was really meager by any Western standards. My kids now go to public school in NYC. The city spends north of $30k for each of them [1]. Yet, if they decide to leave the US nobody will complain that they were…
If they did, I'm sure you'd hear this complaint a lot more.
Re: Why Romania excels in international Olympiads
#63Romania is wasting taxpayer money to groom bright students and then let them leave Romania for some higher GDP country
Re: Why Romania excels in international Olympiads
#64There are many factors - most of them economic and cultural - but it all starts with an intense maths syllabus in school, Soviet Union style. Here's the current one for 5th to 8th grade: https://www.scribd.com/document/184259748/The-Romanian-Maths... Most kids are overwhelmed by the complexity and volume (homework is brutal) but those few with an aptitude for it thrive and are picked up quickly by teachers looking to…
Having seen what children are capable of, it’s neither overwhelming nor brutal. What’s truly brutal is acquiescing to children droning away their youth mindlessly clicking meaningless games or watching vacuous streaming content. We live in what could be a golden age of thought but for the average kid it’s anything but.
Both of these things are droning. One is just culturally acceptable. Don't think so? Stop by your local Kumon center some time.
Re: Why Romania excels in international Olympiads
#65I would like to point out for context that the author, Jordan Lasker, is a eugenist derided for shoddy science, falsely using university affiliations, and racist commentary. I do not write this to contradict particular claims in the article above, but @cremieux should be read cautiously. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Lasker
Re: Why Romania excels in international Olympiads
#66Romania is wasting taxpayer money to groom bright students and then let them leave Romania for some higher GDP country
Re: Why Romania excels in international Olympiads
#67I would like to point out for context that the author, Jordan Lasker, is a eugenist derided for shoddy science, falsely using university affiliations, and racist commentary. I do not write this to contradict particular claims in the article above, but @cremieux should be read cautiously. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Lasker
Re: Why Romania excels in international Olympiads
#68The sorting the author describes absolutely DOES happen in Romania. Exactly as he describes it, “getting into a good school” is incredibly important for students and parents here.
I’d also like to add the high school curriculum is very dense. The kind of math we did in 10th grade (there are 12 grades in Romania) was math people were only introduced to in their first year of university in Denmark.
There’re also a significant amount of optional after-school programs for contests, and I’ve only encountered students from good schools in them (as far as I can remember).
Yes, Romania is much better at filtering and at training people who are predisposed to intelectual work from a young age. Yes, Romania is bad at educating the masses.
However, I disagree with his conclusion and value judgement. I’d much rather see Romania adapt a system which educates everyone, rather than the world be better at filtering.
Re: Why Romania excels in international Olympiads
#69Here's how those three years compare to surrounding years:
2017 22
2018 33
2019 17
2020 15
2021 27
2022 5
2023 4
2024 12
2025 13
(Update: See note at the end with more years)I'm not sure much can be read into this. The participants are usually high school students, and the top contestants from a given country usually participate in multiple years, and each country's team had 6 contestants.
It only takes getting a two or three outstanding students for a country to shoot significantly up for a couple years or so, depending on how close in age those students are.
For the 3 years the article mentions, 2022-2024, Romania had 2 people who were there all 3 years, 5 people who were there for 2 of the 3 years, and only 2 people who were only there for 1 year.
The 2023 team had 5 people from 2022. For 2024 half the 2023 team was replaced.
Looking at several years of their teams and individual performances it looks like they regularly have people who do well. A lot of people place in ranked 150+ one year, then shoot way up in the next year or next two, and then drop way down again.
For example they had a guy who 2018-2020 ranked 174, 15, 4. But they didn't in those last two years have anyone else also peaking.
In 2021-2024 they had a guy who went 143, 32, 1, 82.
In 2021-2023 they had a guy who went 319, 23, 46.
In 2017-2025 all the years except 2022-2024 had 2 people in the top 100. 2022 and 2023 had all 6 in the top 100, and 2024 had 3 in the top 100.
Looking at all this 2022-2024 plausibly could be explained as just a matter of timing. They seem to always have some people who are good enough to get a high score at least once. Some do it their first year and then don't participate any more. Some participate multiple times but only hit that high once. A smaller number hit multiple highs.
With just a small change in the timing of when some of these people appear or when they hit their peaks, so that they happen at the same time instead of missing each other by a small number of years, many of those other teams could before 2022 could have been top 10 teams.
Update: here is Romania's rank going backwards from 2025 to 1979:
2025: 13, 12, 4, 5, 27, 15,
2019: 17, 33, 22, 20, 13, 11, 22, 10, 8, 16,
2009: 13, 17, 11, 6, 6, 10, 7, 8, 15, 11,
1999: 4, 11, 7, 1, 2, 9, 11, 3, 3, 4,
1989: 2, 2, 1, 6, 1, 3, 5, 11, 20, no IMO this year,
1979: 2
It looks like they did very well in the IMP during their last decade of Communism (which ended there in 1989, and also for the decade after that.For the next 10 years they fell off a little. It was during this time (2003 specifically) that they started using a national test to assign people to high schools.
The decade after that fell off a little more. It was at the start of that decade (2010) that they switched to the Evaluarea Națională mentioned in the article.