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AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

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Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#511

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

throwaway48476 wrote: post #429
elevation wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a US-based developer I do not feel threatened by the "cheap" offshore developers I encounter. I've repeatedly been hired to clean up after offshore developers who: * lied about their capabilities/experience to get the job, * failed to grok requirements through the language barrier, * were unable to fix critical bugs in their own code base, * committed buggy chatgpt output verbatim, * and could not be held liable b…

That's not the talent not being fungible but the trust and accountability not being fungible. Which is a structural issue and unlikely to be resolved. I suspect it's more profitable for a lot of VPs for offshore labor to be as inefficient as possible.

Exactly, its an incentives issue (see my comment as I talk about it in detail there)

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#512

Post by DecoySalamander »

bubblyworld wrote: post #409
jedberg wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what stops the employer from hiring someone who lives in a cheaper place? I've worked with remote workers from around the world. Let me preface by saying there are of course exceptions but: What I've found is that most often Americans exhibit self-starting and creativity. What I mean by that is non-us workers are great if you give them a specific task, even a really hard task. But if you give them a nebulous proble…

Only Americans exhibit creativity and drive? What nationalistic nonsense is this? Step outside of your bubble lol.

Americans are truly exceptional people. Or, at least, that's what I learned in American-made training on cultural differences. The funniest part is that the training touched on nationalism. You see, nationalism is a negative quality exhibited by people in other countries. Americans have a positive version of that: patriotism.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#513

Post by antonymoose »

zoeey wrote: post #456

This past year, I’ve seen a lot of entry-level jobs quietly disappear. It’s not that people are getting laid off, it’s that no one’s hiring beginners anymore. What’s really missing isn’t just the jobs, it’s the chance to grow. If there’s nowhere to start, how are new people supposed to get in and learn?

Were there ever that many low-level Junior jobs though?

In my experience, almost everyone in college would get an internship Junior / Senior year and convert into an FTE after graduation. Those that were not so talented or not so lucky usually struggled to find work, taking many months to finally land a job. Most typically at a Booz Allen Hamilton type of place that was just throwing bodies into seats.

At all of my employers, I’ve never really seen any openings for Juniors, only Mid and Senior positions. The few Juniors we did bring on outside of an internship pipeline were either internal transfers, e.g. a SOC analyst given a chance or a nepotism type of hire.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#514

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

closewith wrote: post #459
jedberg wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think those attributes are evenly spread into all countries, but equally I think they are uncommon in all countries. The data does not support your statement. From a startup report just four days ago: The United States alone generates 46.6% of all startup activity worldwide, nearly half of the global total. Together with China (9.2%), the United Kingdom (5.6%), and India (5%), these four countries account for 66.…

It's interesting that your metrics for creativity and risk taking are financial. I think you should reflect on that.

This is the best HN comment I have ever seen. So elegant. I am going to use, "I think you should reflect on that" line from now on. This line is just pleasant to me, seems professional and actually inviting to a discussion while also showcasing the hidden irony of the original case that you pointed out.

This is art, mr white!

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#515

Post by nicman23 »

sumedh wrote: post #212
bilsbie wrote: post #156

AI is the popular cover excuse for layoffs. I can’t think of a single job that modern AI could easily replace.

I used to hire someone who worked part time from home to bookmark some of the key pages in thousands of pdfs just so that I can directly jump to those pages instead of spending time myself on finding those pages. AI can now do it very cheap so no need to give that job to a human anymore.

gnu parallel + pdfgrepper saved my ass too many times

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#516

Post by guappa »

raincole wrote: post #297
fibers wrote: post #8

The accounting note is not true in the traditional sense. The field in the US is just getting offshored to India/PH/Eastern Europe for better or for worse. There is even a big push to lower the educational requirements to attain licensure in the US (Big 4 partners want more bodies and are destroying the pipeline for US students). Audit quality will continue to suffer and public filers will issue bunk financials if th…

It's amusing to see programmers in the US promoting remote work. Do those people really believe they're the most intellectually superior to the rest of the world? If a job can be done purely remotely, what stops the employer from hiring someone who lives in a cheaper place?

Being in the office won't stop offshoring anyway.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#517

Post by guappa »

jedberg wrote: post #360
raincole wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amusing to see programmers in the US promoting remote work. Do those people really believe they're the most intellectually superior to the rest of the world? If a job can be done purely remotely, what stops the employer from hiring someone who lives in a cheaper place?

> what stops the employer from hiring someone who lives in a cheaper place? I've worked with remote workers from around the world. Let me preface by saying there are of course exceptions but: What I've found is that most often Americans exhibit self-starting and creativity. What I mean by that is non-us workers are great if you give them a specific task, even a really hard task. But if you give them a nebulous proble…

In my own experience (EU company, acquired by USA) USA developers are good at burning money, less good at actually delivering a reliable product.

But it can be due to terrible management hiring terribly.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#518

Post by DecoySalamander »

deadbabe wrote: post #448
raincole wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amusing to see programmers in the US promoting remote work. Do those people really believe they're the most intellectually superior to the rest of the world? If a job can be done purely remotely, what stops the employer from hiring someone who lives in a cheaper place?

Oh look, another person who thinks engineers are commodities, especially in a field as loosely defined and unregulated as software engineering. They always ask “if a job can be done remote why not just hire a foreigner in a cheap place?” and never ask “if the foreigner was so good as the American engineer why wouldn’t they be getting paid the same as the American?” It’s like they think companies are dumb and there is…

> if the foreigner was so good as the American engineer why wouldn’t they be getting paid the same as the American

You should also ask whether you're paying American so much because they are so good, or are you paying them so much because rents in SF are so high?

> Covid hits and everyone goes remote, but the salaries only go up. They always go up.

Once again, did it go up because COVID infections somehow made american workers even better or because lockdowns caused mini tech boom while money printing tanked the dollar's value?

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#519

Post by sumedh »

nicman23 wrote: post #515
sumedh wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to hire someone who worked part time from home to bookmark some of the key pages in thousands of pdfs just so that I can directly jump to those pages instead of spending time myself on finding those pages. AI can now do it very cheap so no need to give that job to a human anymore.

gnu parallel + pdfgrepper saved my ass too many times

My use case cannot be solved by just grepping for the keywords because it does return false positives. You do need some intelligence (human or AI) to figure out if its the right page or not to add the bookmark.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#520

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

spwa4 wrote: post #482
jedberg wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be. But I worked at companies where we had full time employees all around the world, all of whom had full access to the same information the rest of us had. And I still saw this behavior generally. There were of course exceptions. Interestingly the biggest exceptions were ones that had at some point lived and worked in the USA, and then had returned to their home country for some reason or another. > I have…

Cultural differences do exist. I don't understand why this isn't a major problem, because it's behavior I've seen again and again and again: Indians seem terrified of showing any initiative whatsoever (including asking), any own contribution, and do what you've asked them and only what you've asked them. They are also terrified of being accused of doing nothing. This goes to extremes, such as purposefully taking a ve…

Well when you are paid peanuts, you do the bare minimum.

And an incentives issue.

Some software engineers work and they do the job and if they finish the work early, the company just start having more expectations of them WHILE PAYING THE SAME. So you are effectively catered if you don't work or take more to do the same atleast in the consultancy or similar business in India.

I feel like a lot of Indians especially software devs don't have this allegiance to a company where we consider a company to be our "family", and I find it really fair. My cousins always tell me that a company extracts 10x more value from you than what they give you back. Not sure how much of that is true in US but some developers are literally exploited in India, they couldn't care less about an application developed if they are this stuck state of limbo where they won't get fired if they do shitty work but they won't really get higher up the ladder either and even if they do the good work, it would take years for the company to notice it and its better to just change companies for that raise.

An incentive issue at its finest which could and is fixed by many people, just because you used a consultancy that sucked or had people that sucked doesn't make us all shitty software devs man.

Its Not a cultural issue, It really offended me as by coating us all in this "culture", you said somethings which are clearly offending.

Maybe I can get the point that maybe software attracts a lot of shy people and so they are shy towards taking the first initiative but that's not a cultural issue.

The culture of our school depends, most schools don't incentivize extracurricular activities that much so we don't do it and that's why we don't usually take initiative, because boom everything matters what you wrote in 3 hours

The incentive system is flawed but maybe I have hope, I mean to be honest, Things aren't that better anywhere else in the world too. I just feel like either the devs I have met irl are absolutely really good from what I've seen or your guys experience hasn't been that good but it isn't that big of a difference and I feel like things are a little exaggerated when I come to such forums.

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