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AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

cnbc.com

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Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#451

Post by FpUser »

malthaus wrote: post #444
elevation wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a US-based developer I do not feel threatened by the "cheap" offshore developers I encounter. I've repeatedly been hired to clean up after offshore developers who: * lied about their capabilities/experience to get the job, * failed to grok requirements through the language barrier, * were unable to fix critical bugs in their own code base, * committed buggy chatgpt output verbatim, * and could not be held liable b…

you're delusional. of course if you take the cheapest possible offshore workers you get terrible results when compared to an experienced engineer in a developed country. but it's a bit like ikea: if you buy their cheapest stuff it will fall apart after a few months but their "expensive" lines are still far cheaper than the competition but the same quality. you might think you're a solid mahogany table but at the end…

Exactly my experience.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#452

Post by FpUser »

tayo42 wrote: post #431
elevation wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a US-based developer I do not feel threatened by the "cheap" offshore developers I encounter. I've repeatedly been hired to clean up after offshore developers who: * lied about their capabilities/experience to get the job, * failed to grok requirements through the language barrier, * were unable to fix critical bugs in their own code base, * committed buggy chatgpt output verbatim, * and could not be held liable b…

More or less my experience too. But at the same time, I doubt there is anything special about me or my US born coworkers. We aren't superior just because of the continent we live in. But offshore work is almost as a rule terrible quality done by people that are frustrating to work with. It doesn't make sense

This experience most likely because dealing with offshore software farms. Those are the same shit as their western counterparts and even worse because of language and logistics. On an individual scale however one can for example easily find great developers in Eastern Europe, and former USSR countries that do amazing job and for very attractive price. Just not dirt cheap.

And yes. There is nothing special about North America as far as quality of software developers in general. Mostly you get average buzzword indoctrinated not so great people with some amazing expectation salary wise.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#453

Post by nxm »

matusp wrote: post #425
jedberg wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think those attributes are evenly spread into all countries, but equally I think they are uncommon in all countries. The data does not support your statement. From a startup report just four days ago: The United States alone generates 46.6% of all startup activity worldwide, nearly half of the global total. Together with China (9.2%), the United Kingdom (5.6%), and India (5%), these four countries account for 66.…

There is startup activity in the US because there is enough capital to fund it. Getting funding for a startup even in pretty rich countries in EU is more difficult by an order of magnitude.

It’s not just funding but also bankruptcy laws are written in a way that encourages entrepreneurship, while not being overburdened by regulations

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#454

Post by Moru »

siva7 wrote: post #413
bubblyworld wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only Americans exhibit creativity and drive? What nationalistic nonsense is this? Step outside of your bubble lol.

It's easy to criticize that part but his last sentence is spot on: the creative it minds from those countries tend to migrate to places that match their entrepreneurial personality better and those usually won't be China or India but rather somewhere in America or even Europe.

They go where they are told it's easier to get money for their ideas. This has long been the US. However it looks like it is changing in some fields lately.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#455

Post by nitwit005 »

raincole wrote: post #297
fibers wrote: post #8

The accounting note is not true in the traditional sense. The field in the US is just getting offshored to India/PH/Eastern Europe for better or for worse. There is even a big push to lower the educational requirements to attain licensure in the US (Big 4 partners want more bodies and are destroying the pipeline for US students). Audit quality will continue to suffer and public filers will issue bunk financials if th…

It's amusing to see programmers in the US promoting remote work. Do those people really believe they're the most intellectually superior to the rest of the world? If a job can be done purely remotely, what stops the employer from hiring someone who lives in a cheaper place?

They've been trying to offshore the work for most of a century now. There are still millions of software engineers in the US.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#456

Post by zoeey »

This past year, I’ve seen a lot of entry-level jobs quietly disappear. It’s not that people are getting laid off, it’s that no one’s hiring beginners anymore. What’s really missing isn’t just the jobs, it’s the chance to grow. If there’s nowhere to start, how are new people supposed to get in and learn?

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#457

Post by myaccountonhn »

schrodinger wrote: post #354
jameslk wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what comes next? When you don’t need as many people because of automation, you also don’t need them to fight your wars. You use drones and other automated weapons. You don’t need things like democracy because that was to prevent people from turning to revolution, and that problem has been solved with automated weapons. So then you don’t really need as many people anymore, so you stop providing the expensive heal…

Dark. But I can't think of a way to rebuke it…

Its deterministic and assumes that those in power are one uniform force. Its still possible to push for a different future.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#458

Post by solatic »

jimmont wrote: post #327

Organizations are choosing to eliminate workers rather than amplify them with AI because they'd rather own 100% of diminished capacity than share proceeds from exponentially increased capacity. That's the rent extraction model consuming its own productive infrastructure. The Stanford study documents organizations systematically choosing inferior economic strategies because their rent-extraction frameworks cannot conc…

> This reveals that these organizations are economic rent-seekers that happen to have productive workers, not production companies that happen to extract rents.

Your perspective is so contrary to reality I'm actually not sure if you're trolling or not. There is no such thing as pure value creation. In order for labor to create value, it must be aligned with the company's value proposition, i.e. what convinces customers to pay for the value that the company provides. Half the people off in the corner building something that they think is valuable are actually building something that customers do not care about, won't pay more for, and increase the company's maintenance burden.

Keeping labor aligned with value creation is the whole game. If it wasn't, then all these rent-seeking-first enterprises would have fired their layers and layers of middle management a long time ago; the company needs to pay them a salary (reducing profits) but they don't write any code / "produce any value". All these massive corporations would have moved to a flat management hierarchy a long time ago, if labor was truly capable of aligning itself to improving value generation; and if you think there's some nefarious/conspiratorial reason why massive corporations don't do that, then most of them would have been out-competed a long time ago by co-ops with flat management hierarchies that could produce the same value at a lower price due to lower administration costs.

Needing to hire employees is a necessary evil for businesses. Aligning employees is hard. Motivating employees is hard. Communication is hard. Businesses do not exist to provide people with jobs, which are created out of sheer necessity, and are destroyed when that necessity goes away.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#459

Post by closewith »

jedberg wrote: post #403
bruce511 wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> What I've found is that only Americans exhibit self-starting and creativity. I'm going to counterpoint somewhat. I think those attributes are evenly spread into all countries, but equally I think they are uncommon in all countries. I don't live in the US. I have traveled there and elsewhere. I would agree that there are lots of cultural differences between places, even places as nominally similar as say the UK, Au…

> I think those attributes are evenly spread into all countries, but equally I think they are uncommon in all countries. The data does not support your statement. From a startup report just four days ago: The United States alone generates 46.6% of all startup activity worldwide, nearly half of the global total. Together with China (9.2%), the United Kingdom (5.6%), and India (5%), these four countries account for 66.…

It's interesting that your metrics for creativity and risk taking are financial. I think you should reflect on that.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#460

Post by charlieyu1 »

jedberg wrote: post #360
raincole wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amusing to see programmers in the US promoting remote work. Do those people really believe they're the most intellectually superior to the rest of the world? If a job can be done purely remotely, what stops the employer from hiring someone who lives in a cheaper place?

> what stops the employer from hiring someone who lives in a cheaper place? I've worked with remote workers from around the world. Let me preface by saying there are of course exceptions but: What I've found is that most often Americans exhibit self-starting and creativity. What I mean by that is non-us workers are great if you give them a specific task, even a really hard task. But if you give them a nebulous proble…

I don't know about others but for me, I don't really care about business outcome. Why should I? It's the manager or the business side's job.
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