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AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

cnbc.com

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Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#431

Post by tayo42 »

elevation wrote: post #423
raincole wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amusing to see programmers in the US promoting remote work. Do those people really believe they're the most intellectually superior to the rest of the world? If a job can be done purely remotely, what stops the employer from hiring someone who lives in a cheaper place?

As a US-based developer I do not feel threatened by the "cheap" offshore developers I encounter. I've repeatedly been hired to clean up after offshore developers who: * lied about their capabilities/experience to get the job, * failed to grok requirements through the language barrier, * were unable to fix critical bugs in their own code base, * committed buggy chatgpt output verbatim, * and could not be held liable b…

More or less my experience too.

But at the same time, I doubt there is anything special about me or my US born coworkers. We aren't superior just because of the continent we live in. But offshore work is almost as a rule terrible quality done by people that are frustrating to work with. It doesn't make sense

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#432

Post by bubblyworld »

jedberg wrote: post #410
bubblyworld wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only Americans exhibit creativity and drive? What nationalistic nonsense is this? Step outside of your bubble lol.

That's not at all what I said. I said I see it far more often in Americans than other cultures. And I have stepped out of my bubble many times. I've worked with a lot of people in a lot of countries. They agree with me.

> What I mean by that is non-us workers are great if you give them a specific task, even a really hard task. But if you give them a nebulous problem, or worse, a business outcome, they tend to perform much more poorly.

I mean come on, how do you expect people to interpret this paragraph? I can only assume you are trolling, so I'm done here.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#433

Post by Tade0 »

raincole wrote: post #297
fibers wrote: post #8

The accounting note is not true in the traditional sense. The field in the US is just getting offshored to India/PH/Eastern Europe for better or for worse. There is even a big push to lower the educational requirements to attain licensure in the US (Big 4 partners want more bodies and are destroying the pipeline for US students). Audit quality will continue to suffer and public filers will issue bunk financials if th…

It's amusing to see programmers in the US promoting remote work. Do those people really believe they're the most intellectually superior to the rest of the world? If a job can be done purely remotely, what stops the employer from hiring someone who lives in a cheaper place?

As an outsider I think Americans still have the upper hand in, for lack of a better term, work ethic.

A lot of that stems from a lack of job security. Stuff like suddenly being locked out of your work email/slack or being escorted out of company premises is largely unheard of in the rest of the world.

As a point of comparison: I'm a contractor based in a popular outsourcing destination. My contract is extended well over a month before it expires and I would need to do something particularly harmful to be let go just like that, as our client values continuity of services and will hold the agency accountable should that suffer.

Over here if a job listing mentions "US client" it typically means considerably more work for considerably more pay. Some go for that, others opt for more relaxed roles. I can't imagine having US jobs as the only option.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#434

Post by yourusername »

visarga wrote: post #417
TrackerFF wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video and graphical designers? I’m not saying this with optimism, but rather as as observation. I know a handful of digital marketers, that work for different marketing firms - and the use of GenAI for those tasks have exploded. Usually tasks which they either had in-house people, or freelancers do the work. Now they just do it themselves.

No it can't replace graphical designers except in low stakes projects. Companies won't risk their projects on cheap AI with other larger costs on the line.

>Companies won't risk their projects on cheap AI with other larger costs on the line.

Coca Cola's christmas ad had AI slop in it last year. That doesn't seem very cheap or low stakes.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#435

Post by jajko »

elevation wrote: post #423
raincole wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amusing to see programmers in the US promoting remote work. Do those people really believe they're the most intellectually superior to the rest of the world? If a job can be done purely remotely, what stops the employer from hiring someone who lives in a cheaper place?

As a US-based developer I do not feel threatened by the "cheap" offshore developers I encounter. I've repeatedly been hired to clean up after offshore developers who: * lied about their capabilities/experience to get the job, * failed to grok requirements through the language barrier, * were unable to fix critical bugs in their own code base, * committed buggy chatgpt output verbatim, * and could not be held liable b…

We all had similar experience(s). But if you have been around long enough you will experience also highly competent and sometimes outright brilliant folks who run circles around most of us. A bit less common in India than say eastern Europe, but thats about it.

Anyway highly competent and experienced folks will always thrive regardless of environment. Its the quiet rest that should be worried from multiple angles.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#436

Post by tayo42 »

johnnienaked wrote: post #265
narcotraffico1 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American workers are truly under attack from all sides. H1B. Outsourcing. What's left? The blue collar manufacturing is mostly gone. White collar work well on its way out. Why is our own government (by the people for the people) actively assisting in destroying American's ability to get jobs (H1B)? Especially in these conditions. I'm no racist or idiot but it's unacceptable. I didn't expect the gov to actively be con…

Efficiency rules all. It just doesn't make sense to pay someone $10 when you can pay someone else $2

2 dollars and a 12 hour time difference with a full day between messages in conversations.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#437

Post by imtringued »

deanmoriarty wrote: post #300
raincole wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amusing to see programmers in the US promoting remote work. Do those people really believe they're the most intellectually superior to the rest of the world? If a job can be done purely remotely, what stops the employer from hiring someone who lives in a cheaper place?

You’ll get downvoted but in my experience, which may not be representative of the entire population, this is true. A mid-size US tech company I know well went fully remote after a lot of insistence from the workforce, prior to the pandemic they were fully in office. Soon enough they started hiring remotely from EU, and now the vast majority of their technical folks are from there. The only US workers remaining are mo…

The fixed exchange rates between EU countries massively drags down the international cost of a German software engineer, and US companies have yet to wisen up to that fact.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#438

Post by jajko »

andoando wrote: post #323
mostlysimilar wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AI potentially solves many of those challenges Isn't it exactly the opposite? Language barriers: LLMs are language models and all of the major ones are built in English, speaking that language fluently is surely a prerequisite to interacting with them efficiently? Knowledge: famously LLMs "know" nothing and are making things up all of the time and sometimes approximate "knowledge"

LLMs are really good with translations. Google Translate is relatively awful. I have an intern now who barely speaks my native language but very bad English so weve been using it all the time, and its always spot on, even for phrases that dont translate directly I bet I can do a good job communicating with you without speaking a common language.

I tested chatgpt when it launched with my obscure native language which is spoken by maybe 6 million people, and certainly isnt easy to learn nor elegant in design and doesnt have much common with English.

It was absolutely flawless, to the level of accentuations and little quirks that no tool before even came close.

Parent is plain wrong and doesnt have a clue... thats what happens when folks skip on learn foreign languages, the most important thing for life you can learn at school. Actively using multiple languages literally increases brain plasticity, much better than running ie sudoku or similar brain teasers endlessly

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#439

Post by muldvarp »

anthem2025 wrote: post #110
ACCount37 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think humans who think they can't be replaced by a next token predictor think too highly of themselves. LLMs show it plain and clear: there's no magic in human intelligence. Abstract thinking is nothing but fancy computation. It can be implemented in math and executed on a GPU.

LLMs have no ability to reason whatsoever. They do have the ability to fool people and exacerbate or cause mental problems.

LLMs are actually pretty good at reasoning. They don't need to be perfect, humans aren't either.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#440

Post by muldvarp »

grim_io wrote: post #86
muldvarp wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you get that "sometimes" down to "rarely" and then "very rarely" you can replace a lot of expensive and inflexible humans with cheap and infinitely flexible computers. That's pretty much what we're experiencing currently. Two years ago code generation by LLMs was usually horrible. Now it's generally pretty good.

I think you are selling yourself short if you believe you can be replaced by a next token predictor :)

I as a human being can of course not be replaced by a next token predictor.

But I as a chess player can easily be replaced by a chess engine and I as a programmer might soon be replaceable by a next token predictor.

The only reason programmers think they can't be replaced by a next token predictor is that programmers don't work that way. But chess players don't work like a chess engine either.

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