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AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

cnbc.com

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Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#401

Post by PeterStuer »

raincole wrote: post #297
fibers wrote: post #8

The accounting note is not true in the traditional sense. The field in the US is just getting offshored to India/PH/Eastern Europe for better or for worse. There is even a big push to lower the educational requirements to attain licensure in the US (Big 4 partners want more bodies and are destroying the pipeline for US students). Audit quality will continue to suffer and public filers will issue bunk financials if th…

It's amusing to see programmers in the US promoting remote work. Do those people really believe they're the most intellectually superior to the rest of the world? If a job can be done purely remotely, what stops the employer from hiring someone who lives in a cheaper place?

When I was on projects with India, churn there was very much higher than from EU sources.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#402

Post by DrewADesign »

johnecheck wrote: post #258
zdragnar wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RAD programming held the same promise, as did UML, flow/low/no code platforms. Inevitably, people remember that the hard part of programming isn't so much the code as it is putting requirements into maintainable code that can respond to future requirements. LLMs basically only automate the easiest part of the job today. Time will tell if they get better, but my money is on me fixing people's broken LLM generated busi…

Indeed. Capacity to do the hard parts of software engineering well may well be our best indicator of AGI. I don't think LLMs alone are going to get there. They might be a key component in a more powerful system, but they might also be a very impressive dead end.

Sometimes I think we’re like cats that stumbled upon the ability to make mirrors. Many cats react like there’s another cat in the mirror, and I wonder if AGI is just us believing we can make more cats if we make the perfect mirror.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#403

Post by jedberg »

bruce511 wrote: post #385
jedberg wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what stops the employer from hiring someone who lives in a cheaper place? I've worked with remote workers from around the world. Let me preface by saying there are of course exceptions but: What I've found is that most often Americans exhibit self-starting and creativity. What I mean by that is non-us workers are great if you give them a specific task, even a really hard task. But if you give them a nebulous proble…

>> What I've found is that only Americans exhibit self-starting and creativity. I'm going to counterpoint somewhat. I think those attributes are evenly spread into all countries, but equally I think they are uncommon in all countries. I don't live in the US. I have traveled there and elsewhere. I would agree that there are lots of cultural differences between places, even places as nominally similar as say the UK, Au…

> I think those attributes are evenly spread into all countries, but equally I think they are uncommon in all countries.

The data does not support your statement. From a startup report just four days ago:

The United States alone generates 46.6% of all startup activity worldwide, nearly half of the global total. Together with China (9.2%), the United Kingdom (5.6%), and India (5%), these four countries account for 66.4% of the absolute global startup activity.

I will give you that Israel in particular has a strong risk taking culture, as does Singapore and Estonia. And there are a lot of startups coming out of there.

But overall the US has way more risk taking.

And like I said at the very beginning, there are of course exceptions. Yes, every culture has some brilliant risk takers. But at least until recently, many of them came to the USA after they got successful.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#404

Post by jedberg »

laughing_man wrote: post #387
jedberg wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what stops the employer from hiring someone who lives in a cheaper place? I've worked with remote workers from around the world. Let me preface by saying there are of course exceptions but: What I've found is that most often Americans exhibit self-starting and creativity. What I mean by that is non-us workers are great if you give them a specific task, even a really hard task. But if you give them a nebulous proble…

>What I've found is that only Americans exhibit self-starting and creativity. Isn't that mostly a function of how incentives are aligned? I had a job with a lot of outsourcing to India. The Indians were given specific bits of code to write. They didn't even know how their code fit into the application. Their entire incentive structure was geared toward getting them to write those bits of code as quickly as possible,…

It could be. But I worked at companies where we had full time employees all around the world, all of whom had full access to the same information the rest of us had. And I still saw this behavior generally. There were of course exceptions.

Interestingly the biggest exceptions were ones that had at some point lived and worked in the USA, and then had returned to their home country for some reason or another.

> I have a feeling if the entire application had been moved to India things would have been different.

I had direct experience with this. We had an office of full time employees in India tasked with a project, but I still had to hand hold them through most of the key decisions (which I didn't have to do with the US based teams nearly as much).

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#405

Post by jedberg »

nurettin wrote: post #389
jedberg wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what stops the employer from hiring someone who lives in a cheaper place? I've worked with remote workers from around the world. Let me preface by saying there are of course exceptions but: What I've found is that most often Americans exhibit self-starting and creativity. What I mean by that is non-us workers are great if you give them a specific task, even a really hard task. But if you give them a nebulous proble…

I've worked with experts from around the world. After a certain level of competitiveness they are all pretty much the same. Once you become "pals" they all start suggesting improvements. Maybe you socialize better with americans.

Sure, at the highest levels you'll find these traits everywhere. But there is a reason these folks have ascended to the highest levels. What I'm saying is that you find it far more often in junior people in the USA.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#406

Post by dijit »

laughing_man wrote: post #394
bilsbie wrote: post #156

AI is the popular cover excuse for layoffs. I can’t think of a single job that modern AI could easily replace.

It doesn't have to replace people on a one-for-one basis to cause job losses. Let's say LLMs make your developers 50% more efficient. Doesn't it stand to reason you can lay off the lowest performing 33% and get the same amount (or more) of work?

there hasn’t been a single study that concludes any benefits to AI yet.

Either it’s a cover for something or people are a bit too overzealous to believe in gains that haven’t materialised yet.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#407

Post by watwut »

jedberg wrote: post #360
raincole wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amusing to see programmers in the US promoting remote work. Do those people really believe they're the most intellectually superior to the rest of the world? If a job can be done purely remotely, what stops the employer from hiring someone who lives in a cheaper place?

> what stops the employer from hiring someone who lives in a cheaper place? I've worked with remote workers from around the world. Let me preface by saying there are of course exceptions but: What I've found is that most often Americans exhibit self-starting and creativity. What I mean by that is non-us workers are great if you give them a specific task, even a really hard task. But if you give them a nebulous proble…

> America has a much higher risk tolerance than the rest of the world.

America is one of the most risk averse countries in the world, seriously. Americans are constantly scared - of loosing job, of physical injury, of everything and everywhere.

> Failing is considered a good thing in the USA

America punishes failure pretty hard. Some peoples failures are ignored, but most peoples failures are punished in pretty significant ways.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#408

Post by watwut »

jedberg wrote: post #403
bruce511 wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> What I've found is that only Americans exhibit self-starting and creativity. I'm going to counterpoint somewhat. I think those attributes are evenly spread into all countries, but equally I think they are uncommon in all countries. I don't live in the US. I have traveled there and elsewhere. I would agree that there are lots of cultural differences between places, even places as nominally similar as say the UK, Au…

> I think those attributes are evenly spread into all countries, but equally I think they are uncommon in all countries. The data does not support your statement. From a startup report just four days ago: The United States alone generates 46.6% of all startup activity worldwide, nearly half of the global total. Together with China (9.2%), the United Kingdom (5.6%), and India (5%), these four countries account for 66.…

Creativity and startup are two different things. Many of those startups are not creative in any way. And conversely being creative does not imply creating a company. This is about how capital work.

America is unique in way it businessmen tend to think that creating a business is the only way to be creative.

And incidentally, post was about employee creativity.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#409

Post by bubblyworld »

jedberg wrote: post #360
raincole wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amusing to see programmers in the US promoting remote work. Do those people really believe they're the most intellectually superior to the rest of the world? If a job can be done purely remotely, what stops the employer from hiring someone who lives in a cheaper place?

> what stops the employer from hiring someone who lives in a cheaper place? I've worked with remote workers from around the world. Let me preface by saying there are of course exceptions but: What I've found is that most often Americans exhibit self-starting and creativity. What I mean by that is non-us workers are great if you give them a specific task, even a really hard task. But if you give them a nebulous proble…

Only Americans exhibit creativity and drive? What nationalistic nonsense is this? Step outside of your bubble lol.

Re: AI adoption linked to 13% decline in jobs for young U.S. workers: study

#410

Post by jedberg »

bubblyworld wrote: post #409
jedberg wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what stops the employer from hiring someone who lives in a cheaper place? I've worked with remote workers from around the world. Let me preface by saying there are of course exceptions but: What I've found is that most often Americans exhibit self-starting and creativity. What I mean by that is non-us workers are great if you give them a specific task, even a really hard task. But if you give them a nebulous proble…

Only Americans exhibit creativity and drive? What nationalistic nonsense is this? Step outside of your bubble lol.

That's not at all what I said. I said I see it far more often in Americans than other cultures. And I have stepped out of my bubble many times. I've worked with a lot of people in a lot of countries.

They agree with me.

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