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Good riddance, PayPal

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Re: Good riddance, PayPal

#91

Post by elpadi »

kevinconroy wrote: post #84
reitzensteinm wrote: post #35

The customer service angle sucks, no question, and I'm worried about getting into similar trouble (I sell downloadable games via PayPal). But I actually think holding an issues worth of revenue in reserve is a decent enough compromise. If the company goes bankrupt before an issue ships, for whatever reason, PayPal themselves are going to be on the hook for refunding every single payment, as well as chargeback fees th…

Excellent points. As developers, we're used to just plugging in an API and have it "just work". Money transfer systems are different. They draw a lot of dark, evil forces that try not just to hack their systems, but to game and abuse it through normal operations. It's unfortunate that legitimate businesses get caught in the crossfire sometimes, but we rarely hear about how many credit card thieves PayPal's system rig…

"but we rarely hear about how many credit card thieves PayPal's system rightful stops. (Answer: It's a lot.)".

How do you know it is a lot if we rarely hear about it?

Re: Good riddance, PayPal

#92

Post by ArbitraryLimits »

tptacek wrote: post #78
ios84dev wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a merchant account provider have your personal social security number/be doing credit checks? Assuming its an incorporated C corp?

Because merchant banks require them. Anyone can create any number of C corporations at any time. Merchant accounts are one of several business services that young companies can't set typically set up without somehow binding the contract to the business owners themselves.

> one of several business services

Could elaborate on the other ones?

Re: Good riddance, PayPal

#93

Post by Splines »

crag wrote: post #53
adrinavarro wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are debit cards out there! In fact, everyone I know has at least one debit card (either MasterCard or VISA), aside from the number of people who have an AMEX/VISA (credit type). And debit cards work everywhere. I've used my VISA Electron (debit) pretty much everywhere in the developed world, both online and travelling abroad.

I use Paypal for one reason (as the consumer); it adds an extra layer of protection for me. I don't want to give my CC details to every site I buy from. And then have to check my CC statement everyday to make sure nothing was hacked along the way. For a consumer, Paypal makes it very easy to manage payments, receipts, and any other issues. By the way, never ever use a debt card online. You're handing over access to y…

> By the way, never ever use a debt card online. You're handing over access to your bank account.

Are you sure about that?

Visa will refund you money if your card is lost or stolen: http://usa.visa.com/personal/cards/debit/visa_check_cards_fa...

My personal bank also has similar verbiage for my debit card. They also mention that internet purchases are considered non-PIN purchases and are offered the same protection.

Yes, there is more risk since money can be taken directly out of your account instead of going against your credit, but there are mitigations in place.

Re: Good riddance, PayPal

#94

Post by jonknee »

jedberg wrote: post #89
reitzensteinm wrote: post #35

The customer service angle sucks, no question, and I'm worried about getting into similar trouble (I sell downloadable games via PayPal). But I actually think holding an issues worth of revenue in reserve is a decent enough compromise. If the company goes bankrupt before an issue ships, for whatever reason, PayPal themselves are going to be on the hook for refunding every single payment, as well as chargeback fees th…

But yet somehow banks stay in business while being legally barred from these same protections.

Banks have a much more rigorous approval process and are more limited in the merchants they accept (especially internationally).

Re: Good riddance, PayPal

#95

Post by jonknee »

michaelt wrote: post #44
tylerrooney wrote: post #27

Perhaps someone who runs their own company can answer this question for me: If you don't use PayPal, how do you receive payment from customers who don't have credit cards? Are your customers exclusively in North America? Or do you just write those customers off (which is a valid option if PayPal integration would be that painful)? Adding PayPal as a payment option has been an enormous pain for us but a non-consequent…

If you don't use PayPal, how do you receive payment from customers who don't have credit cards? If a customer doesn't have a credit card or a debit card that your payment gateway accepts, you deal with them the same way you deal with customers who don't have computers.

That works in the US, but it does not work internationally.

Re: Good riddance, PayPal

#96

Post by wpietri »

dangrossman wrote: post #26
andr wrote: post #10

Does anyone have insider knowledge of why PayPal has been causing merchants so much trouble? It sure looks bad on the outside, but I'd be interested to hear their rationale.

Considering they have a quarter billion active users, a "horror story" once or twice a month is an amazingly, amazingly low dissatisfaction rate. I don't think PayPal is actually causing that many merchants much trouble. It just appears that way, because: * At most merchant services providers, underwriting happens up front: you have to describe your business, what you're selling, expected volume, etc. on an applicati…

Even given that, I think PayPal has done a poor customer service job.

They long ago could have introduced some sort of premier business account that drags serious merchants through a proper vetting process.

Then they could have made the "we're scared of you" experience for non-premier users much less confusing. They clearly have a lot of internal structure and rules. They want to keep some of that hidden, to minimize fraud hackery. But they could expose the broad strokes to users, make clear what state they're in, and offer them the opportunity to upgrade to properly vetted merchant accounts at any time. People aren't upset about the restrictions; it's their arbitrary, opaque nature that makes them seem so unfair.

I think the real problem here is that PayPal is owned by EBay. I hear EBay is getting better, but the place used to be a nightmare to work at, and one glance at their website tells you how thoroughly they're focusing on exploiting their existing model at the expense of trying anything new. With that kind of ownership, I figure anybody with a desire for innovation long ago left PayPal.

Re: Good riddance, PayPal

#97

Post by ihsw »

Karunamon wrote: post #55
Greynum wrote: post #36

This is why Bitcoins was created.

No it isn't. Bitcoin's killer feature is anonymity. It has no underwriting, no risk prevention, and worst of all, no ubiquity. Once you pay someone with BTC, your money is gone. It's that simple. Unless you involve a third party of some kind, and then it's PayPal all over again... though I assume it's a great deal easier to become a BTC middleman than a middleman of any established currency, due to lack of idiotic go…

Actually Bitcoin's killer features indeed includes removing banks/other intermediaries from the transaction process, in addition to making state-sponsored inflation impossible.

Bankers hate BTC because it removes them from inter-mediating people and their money, statists hate BTC because it nullifies their socialist dreams of gathering funds at will (printing money). Anonymity is just a nice bonus.

Re: Good riddance, PayPal

#98

Post by jeltz »

kevinconroy wrote: post #7

There's been a lot of PayPal hating on HN. I'm not trying to defend the horrible things that I've heard, but I, for one, am a happy PayPal customer. We've regularly moved thousands upon thousands of dollars a day for the last decade without any major issues. #YMMV

I have worked with about 6 to 8 payment providers and from my anecdotal experience Paypal was the worst to work with.

Re: Good riddance, PayPal

#99

Post by run4yourlives »

jedberg wrote: post #89
reitzensteinm wrote: post #35

The customer service angle sucks, no question, and I'm worried about getting into similar trouble (I sell downloadable games via PayPal). But I actually think holding an issues worth of revenue in reserve is a decent enough compromise. If the company goes bankrupt before an issue ships, for whatever reason, PayPal themselves are going to be on the hook for refunding every single payment, as well as chargeback fees th…

But yet somehow banks stay in business while being legally barred from these same protections.

Of course, you're using a paypal instead of a bank for this very reason, mostly.

Re: Good riddance, PayPal

#100

Post by Karunamon »

Karunamon wrote: post #55
Greynum wrote: post #36

This is why Bitcoins was created.

No it isn't. Bitcoin's killer feature is anonymity. It has no underwriting, no risk prevention, and worst of all, no ubiquity. Once you pay someone with BTC, your money is gone. It's that simple. Unless you involve a third party of some kind, and then it's PayPal all over again... though I assume it's a great deal easier to become a BTC middleman than a middleman of any established currency, due to lack of idiotic go…

state-sponsored inflation

..which is just replaced with built-in inflation. At least the rate is predictable and static.

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