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Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

open-web-advocacy.org

291–300 of 356 posts

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#291
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't people in Japan riot because they can't buy iPhones and be part of the tribe? There are few things in life people like more than their iPhones.

Hehehe, like Apple tried to pull "we'll keep back AI from EU as a punishment" ? Were there riots? :)

Just change your language to English on your device and you have it. They did not really try.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#292
post #103
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. That's the downside of it. I am personally quite torn on the issue. On the one hand Apple must be made to open up iOS more. On the other hand it just leads to Chrome monopoly.

Then attack Chrome. There isn’t a moral conundrum here.

I attack Chrome often. Even in this discussion to the post

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#293
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then attack Chrome. There isn’t a moral conundrum here.

I look forward to the Open Web Alliance being as critical of Chrome and it's many tracking capabilities as they are of Safari…

They won't. OWA are unapologetic Chrome shills, going as far as calling many of Chrome-only non-standards "essential" and saying that Edge is a completely different browser than Chrome

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#294
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. That's the downside of it. I am personally quite torn on the issue. On the one hand Apple must be made to open up iOS more. On the other hand it just leads to Chrome monopoly.

>On the other hand it just leads to Chrome monopoly. If a browser engine continues to exist not on its merits but because its users are locked in, there is zero value in it. If 100% of people switch to chromium based browsers (an open source project) while they have free choice that's how it is. There's nothing inherently wrong with this. We don't need browser engine DEI. Even the term monopoly is spurious in the wor…

> contradiction to apply the competitive logic of proprietary platforms to fundamental OSS infrastructure.

Chromium is controlled and developed by Google. And it's dangerous to have fundamental infrastructure in the hands of one company. Here's a reminder what they did with Android: https://www.androidauthority.com/google-android-development-...

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#295
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stand by what I said. Apple used to be the leading smartphone manufacturer in China, now they aren't even in the top 5. Sometimes things change, and I doubt China's in shambles because Airdrop isn't ubiquitous. I see no reason why Japan would be different. The notion that American tech companies are invincible is really only a view held by Americans. The overwhelming majority of people I speak to internationally do…

Maybe not brand loyalty... but people, universally, want the best product available. Today, for a large portion of the world, that is perceived to be the iPhone. The iPhone being banned in Japan because of some policy dispute with the government is going to go over like a bag of wet cement. People may not care that it's "Apple", but they do care the "Best" is being banned for reasons the population doesn't care about…

Japan has such a high share of iPhones because it's a winner takes it all market. People prefer to be in the majority by default, and it will take a lot more than just being good to dethrone the major platform.

Reminds me that I still don't know why Samsung is chained so hard to docomo. It can't just be a marketing thing.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#296

Everybody is talking about Chrome, but I tell ya what I have that disabled on my Android in favor of Firefox. Firefox on mobile with full-fat uBlock Origin is the closest thing to parity with desktop web access you can get. I don't just block ads, I block elements on sites I don't care about with :has-text RegEx rules. You can't do that on Chrome even on desktop anymore. I'm this close to swapping to the Android as m…

The consent-o-matic extension is also incredibly worth it on mobile firefox. Automates clicking through almost every cookie banner I've come across, which is much more annoying to do manually on a phone than on desktop.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#297
post #221

Everybody is talking about Chrome, but I tell ya what I have that disabled on my Android in favor of Firefox. Firefox on mobile with full-fat uBlock Origin is the closest thing to parity with desktop web access you can get. I don't just block ads, I block elements on sites I don't care about with :has-text RegEx rules. You can't do that on Chrome even on desktop anymore. I'm this close to swapping to the Android as m…

I've been using https://messages.google.com to get something like the desktop iMessage experience with Android- does that work for your use case? (I don't use iMessage so I could just be missing some killer feature it has, or something.)

I've been doing this too! You can install it as a PWA and get a nice desktop experience.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: Your whole narrative is just Apple PR talk in disguise. If Safari were even remotely close to being "the best mainstream browser" as you claimed, it would manifest itself in Safari capturing a dominant market share i.e. people would naturally gravitate towards Safari without Apple forcing it upon users. Apple would also invest much more into Web technology, but they don't have any interest in doing that…

Of course there's conflict of interest. I'd prefer we address all the things their actions motivated by that conflict of interest are shielding me from before we smack them down, though. After that, yeah, I'll take up a pitchfork, too. For now, they're my AnCap-approved optional private enforcement regime against a bunch of the antisocial and market-capturing behavior of the rest of tech, since public regulators are…

>Meanwhile: yes they in fact have the best mainstream browser, and it's not even close.

You have lost all credibility. I mean, you had very little to begin with using a 5-day old Apple-shill account, but now you have zero.

Safari is the absolute worst browser, by far, approaching Internet Explorer levels of wtf. On iOS it implements touch gestures completely differently than other browsers, because Apple does what Apple wants - forcing developers to buy a real iPhone just to debug their shitty browser. Their lack of webAPIs is absolutely to push developers to their App store - and I know this first hand because I have a web app that works on every other browser but Safari due to its lack of APIs. So if I want to support apple, I have to pay them for the privilege to develop said app, as well as pay them to buy their hardware to develop and test the app. Fuck all of that. I don't have to do that for any other browser or platform.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#299
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>On the other hand it just leads to Chrome monopoly. If a browser engine continues to exist not on its merits but because its users are locked in, there is zero value in it. If 100% of people switch to chromium based browsers (an open source project) while they have free choice that's how it is. There's nothing inherently wrong with this. We don't need browser engine DEI. Even the term monopoly is spurious in the wor…

> contradiction to apply the competitive logic of proprietary platforms to fundamental OSS infrastructure. Chromium is controlled and developed by Google. And it's dangerous to have fundamental infrastructure in the hands of one company. Here's a reminder what they did with Android: https://www.androidauthority.com/google-android-development-...

They can do nothing to Android because as the article points out Samsung or the entirety of China and the billions of other people in the world will just work on a fork and that will become consensus. If you have one company acting as the dominant player in an open source project, the fact that everyone else can walk away puts an implicit limit on what they can do.

To literally take Chromium as an example. Look at Google's manifest v3 changes. Brave and all the other chromium based browsers just put their own ad blocking shim on top and they're fine.

Re: Japan: Apple Must Lift Browser Engine Ban by December

#300
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who told you that these are reasons the population doesn't care about? I know at least in Europe there has been wide support for initiatives such as the DMA, even knowing what it would entail. You're running on conjecture here.

You think the population of Japan will be ok with banning iPhones because their governments thinks other web browsers should run on the devices too? How many iPhone users, outside of a small group of "techies" are even aware there are other mobile browsers? Think about your parents or grandparents - not you, someone who has vastly more knowledge in this area. How many "normals" really care... I'd wager near zero.

Apple stop selling iphones won't take the iphones away, not many people care about their next one. The impact would be negligible and every other country would notice they can demand compliance.
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