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We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

newyorker.com

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Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#341

Post by godot »

Aurornis wrote: post #250
stdvit wrote: post #97

> Even in a world brimming with easy distractions—TikTok, Pornhub, Candy Crush, Sudoku—people still manage to meet for drinks, work out at the gym, go on dates, muddle through real life. They actually don't. Everything from dating and fitness to manufacturing and politics is in decline in activities, and more so in effect and understanding. You can't convince (enough) people anymore that it is even important as many…

I go out and do different activities that involve socialization. There are more people than ever going to the climbing gyms, meeting at the hiking trailhead, hanging out in the ski lift lines, and so on. All of the social places I’ve been going and activities I’ve been doing since a teenager are more crowded than ever, at a rate far faster than the local population growth. Many of the people doing these activities di…

One thing that not enough people realize is that the gap between haves and have-nots widen in almost everything when technology advances, and I don't mean just wealth (that is one too), but also knowledge (LLM/AI widens knowledge gap between the curious and not-curious by a lot), and in this case socialization -- the availability of technology (in both organizing activities like your example and in AI loneliness like the article) widens the socialize and not-socialize people.

In the old days, not-socialize people tend to be forced to socialize anyway; but techonology enables them to not-socialize 99% of time now. Likewise, socialize people needed to put in more effort to socialize in the old days, but now it's easier than ever.

When more people realize this, the discourse should shift from "technology creates this trend" to "technology widens the gap between X and not-X".

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#342

Post by AlecSchueler »

slt2021 wrote: post #247
billy99k wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main discussion is on replacement rates. If this get too low, civilization eventually collapses. It's not really a 'vision' and more like the end of humanity.

no, it doesn't. With the labor productivity and automation, it is not obvious we need to maintain the current population, especially because the current social contract seems to be working class being exploited by oligarchs, while their taxes go fund boomers' retirement and overseas wars

And don't forget that the constant growth mentality is causing widespread ecocide which will almost certainly bring an end to society anyway.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#343

Post by ruszki »

Den_VR wrote: post #302
anal_reactor wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. Most people can afford grabbing a beer in a supermarket and going to the park. They just choose not to. I think the real change is that nowadays it's just easier and more practical NOT to maintain friendships. Yes, it's lonely, but it's more efficient.

So, who are you going to go drinking with at the park? And in reverse, you’re visiting the park and see someone there drinking. What’s your impression?

The same people with who I drink in pubs in other times. Which happens quite frequently because it’s completely legal where I live. Also almost everybody does it.

So nothing extra compared to people who are drinking in pubs.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#344

Post by JadoJodo »

IgorPartola wrote: post #142
stdvit wrote: post #97

> Even in a world brimming with easy distractions—TikTok, Pornhub, Candy Crush, Sudoku—people still manage to meet for drinks, work out at the gym, go on dates, muddle through real life. They actually don't. Everything from dating and fitness to manufacturing and politics is in decline in activities, and more so in effect and understanding. You can't convince (enough) people anymore that it is even important as many…

I’d like to offer an alternative explanation than AI to this. Shit is just too damn expensive. If you want to go hang out with friends it will cost you $4-8 for a cup of coffee. A dinner starts at $50/person. A trip to an amusement park is over $100 easily. The median individual income in the US currently is just over $65k/year or about $32.50/hour. That means half the workforce makes less than that. When an 8oz cock…

> It is about the crushing stress of surviving in this economic climate that is leaving people absolutely no energy to go and socialize.

The past 2-years have been some of the most difficult of my life (for a number of non-work reasons). After work, family, and household tasks, I have often been left with little energy in the evenings (and no real desire to socialize). And yet, as a part of a church men's group I attend weekly, I have had the opportunity to engage with others going through similar things. How do I know that they are going through similar things? Because it's come out when as I've consistently engaged with the same group of people.

It's very easy when you're tired and stressed to “turtle” and internalize everything; I've done it more times than I can count. And yet this is the time when I most need others. These guys are not in my friends group, and yet the struggles (and successes) that are shared are sometimes more than I hear from close friends. The result of hearing others' struggles is the realization that a) I am not the only one going through hard stuff, and b) focusing on others' struggles makes dealing with my own easier.

“Socializing” with others may cost money, but connecting with them doesn't have to: I spend $0/week meeting the guys in my group for an hour or two. In reflecting on my own attitudes towards socializing in the past, I've come to realize that it can be very self-focused: How can _I_ feel better? How can _I_ have fun? What can _I_ get out of going out?

I am, by no means, the arbiter of selflessness (not even close, ha!), but I have learned that connecting with others' with their good in mind has had the incredible effect of giving me energy where there was very little before.

Just my $0.02.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#345

Post by bflesch »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #290
miki123211 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as long as they know they are talking to a model Any evidence for this? It's obvious that a sufficiently advanced AI could solve loneliness if it was allowed to present as human, you just wouldn't know it isn't one. I'm entirely unconvinced that something which seems human in all respects couldn't replace one, even if your brain knows that it's actually AI.

A sufficiently advanced ai that tricks humans would be a human life itself…

one day, some sick mind will do a study with a baby who is only exposed to AI without any real human contact

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#347

Post by dmoy »

Aurornis wrote: post #271
taormina wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas costs money. The car costs money. You can only do the same hike that's an hour away so many times, before you're traveling to go to new places, and hotels cost money at that point. Pickleball courts cost money. The pickleball equipment costs money. People do go to the library, and then they go home and don't interact with other people.

Then go for a walk in the closest park instead of a hike an hour away. Play volleyball on the free net at the local park instead of signing up for pickleball and buying great. The people who want to avoid activities and socialization will always pick the more expensive activities so they can dismiss them. Yet go into the real world and people have no problem finding ways to socialize and have fun without spending muc…

> Play volleyball on the free net at the local park instead of signing up for pickleball and buying great.

Coincidentally, my neighborhood just put up its first volleyball net a week or so back. It was stolen within two days lol

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#348

Post by gus_tpm »

nottorp wrote: post #299
benreesman wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm about to be 41 and likewise very distinctly remember a time when cell phones were a vehicle for organizing the evening or weekend's plans, quickly making a connection with someone you met ("let me get your number"), whatever, buying weed or something. The point was to make friends, get laid, network without calling it that. The idea was that some of those random people would become your crew of friends, one of th…

> when cell phones were a vehicle for organizing the evening or weekend's plans Still are! As I post this we're establishing where we meet for beers and at what time on my whatsapp friends group. Ofc, we're old geezers too.

Don't worry me and my friends still do this as well and we are 20-30.

I am extremely lucky though, living by myself in the capital city of my country makes it very easy to go out and do stuff

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#349

Post by AlecSchueler »

Nathanba wrote: post #335
egypturnash wrote: post #295

It's not going to solve loneliness. It's just going to provide a weak substitute for actual socialization. Talking with actual humans but only over the internet is not enough, I have been there and it was a terrible trap, it provided just enough to make it possible for me to avoid physical socialization, while not giving me enough to actually thrive; we need to get out and be in the same place with other people, doin…

Real humans are also fake and they are also traps who are waiting to catch you when you say something they don't like. Then they also use every word and piece of information as ammunition against you, ironically sort of similar to the criticism always levied against online platforms who track you and what you say. AI robots are going to easily replace real humans because compared to most real humans the AI is already…

Real humans are real. Their flaws are real. Your emotions around them are real and so are the benefits to socialising. Accepting people as the flawed actors they are is a part of becoming a mature adult.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#350

Post by modeless »

I think AI will probably be capable of solving loneliness in an actually beneficial way: by encouraging us to seek socialization with other humans and by helping us improve ourselves to be better companions. Finally reversing the modern trend toward isolation.

Unfortunately the business incentives are probably a lot stronger to build the kind of thing that would replace human companionship instead of encouraging it. But I think it would be possible to design a system that would improve and connect people. It would be an interesting design challenge for sure.

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