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We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

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Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#301

Post by gchamonlive »

kylebenzle wrote: post #166
gchamonlive wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second that. Everybody is quick to jump the gun and blame the victim, while all this can be easily explained by the insane lifestyle we are forced to subscribe in order to survive in this crazy cut-throat productivist job market.

That explanation makes no sense, obviously. Human beings have been human beings long before things even cost money and will exist long after money is gone. I'm happy to accept the idea that people are simply brainwashed into thinking they need money and that is the root of their problems, but needing money is not a problem for a human being in and of itself. Edit: but I think you said it yourself, you seem to think t…

> Human beings have been human beings long before things even cost money and will exist long after money is gone.

That thinking assumes that money and human behaviour is in a one direction. You first have human behaviour and then you have money, so it would stand to reason that one is subject to the other. However, in reality the relationship is of co-dependency. Human behaviour adapts to the availability of money and what it buys. Have you ever seen trying to reintroduce a wild animal after it's being treated for a long time? You can't just throw it in the jungle and expect them to survive.

> needing money is not a problem for a human being in and of itself.

Which I'm reading that is not essential, following the previous paragraph, which I disagree. Take electricity out, most people wouldn't be able to survive too long. We weren't dependent but we've built lifesyles that are and we are trapped in it. Which doesn't mean we need to return to jungle, it's just that we need to treat the relationship between humans and the economy with much more respect than that.

> you seem to think that you're forced to live a certain lifestyle, that's not true.

I believe you are thinking about a ostentatious lifestyle. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about lifestyle where we are used to electricity and supermarkets. Where everything is taken care of so that we hyperspecialize our skill sets.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#302

Post by Den_VR »

anal_reactor wrote: post #276
dv_dt wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though it's popularized to blame social media and phones, economics should not be overlooked. Pay for young generations is lagging and restaurants and bar prices are super high. Public spaces for informal gatherings has shrunk - eg fewer malls

Bullshit. Most people can afford grabbing a beer in a supermarket and going to the park. They just choose not to. I think the real change is that nowadays it's just easier and more practical NOT to maintain friendships. Yes, it's lonely, but it's more efficient.

So, who are you going to go drinking with at the park?

And in reverse, you’re visiting the park and see someone there drinking. What’s your impression?

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#303

Post by IgorPartola »

DoneWithAllThat wrote: post #201
IgorPartola wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d like to offer an alternative explanation than AI to this. Shit is just too damn expensive. If you want to go hang out with friends it will cost you $4-8 for a cup of coffee. A dinner starts at $50/person. A trip to an amusement park is over $100 easily. The median individual income in the US currently is just over $65k/year or about $32.50/hour. That means half the workforce makes less than that. When an 8oz cock…

This excuse is so tiresome. Generations before you lived through far worse than whatever supposed hell you doom scrolled your way into believing. The world is literally better than it’s ever been. Go experience it instead of complaining about vibes.

If you can’t afford to not work something like 60-70 hours a week because your corporate own house rent is sky high you aren’t doing much exploring. This argument that you just need to take off and go experience the world is so tiresome because it is so privileged. It means you have no ties, no responsibilities, no family who rely on you.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#304

Post by egypturnash »

Aurornis wrote: post #277
newsclues wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The library has become a place for drugs addicts and homeless people who use the free computers to look at porn. It’s no longer a nice or safe place to go.

Your city sounds depressing. Mine (US) is not like this at all. The libraries near me are not like this at all. One library has some homeless people but anyone being disruptive is quickly removed. We take the kids to the libraries all the time and it’s fine.

There's a lot of this. Seattle's main library was explicitly built with the awareness that libraries are one of the few places homeless people can get out of the weather for a while, and has an entire floor full of public-use computers with a lot of pointers to what little social safety net remains.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#305

Post by Aurornis »

nottorp wrote: post #280
IgorPartola wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d like to offer an alternative explanation than AI to this. Shit is just too damn expensive. If you want to go hang out with friends it will cost you $4-8 for a cup of coffee. A dinner starts at $50/person. A trip to an amusement park is over $100 easily. The median individual income in the US currently is just over $65k/year or about $32.50/hour. That means half the workforce makes less than that. When an 8oz cock…

> When an 8oz cocktail costs you an hour of your life I don't know about that, we meet with a group of friends at someone's house, we all pitch in for the ingredients and make the cocktails ourselves.

It feels weird to read all these responses from people who think the only way to socialize is to pay high prices at bars and coffee shops.

It’s like how someone who avoids socialization imagines what socialization looks like. I hope some people are reading this thread and realizing it’s not as expensive as they assume to go out and do things. There are many people out there making a fraction of what most readers here do who have no problem finding things to do for socialization.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#306

Post by olddustytrail »

billy99k wrote: post #102
nathan_compton wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think public discussion of whether you are having "enough" sex and "enough" babies to satisfy some oligarch or technocrat's vision of how the world should be, while not specifically deterring people going out, contributes to a general gross vibe which I could imagine doesn't help people want to get out there and mingle. But I do think this is overstated. I have a small number of children and the main reason that we…

The main discussion is on replacement rates. If this get too low, civilization eventually collapses. It's not really a 'vision' and more like the end of humanity.

This seems like a self correcting problem.

In the past, women who didn't really want children didn't have a great deal of choice, particularly if they wanted to follow any kind of socially acceptable life. It was considered a failure to many if they didn't get a husband and children.

Therefore there was no particular evolutionary pressure to select for women who actually had a strong biological urge to have children.

But there is now, so after a few generations you end up with mostly those women having children, that genetically passed on desire becomes more prominent, and birth rates increase again. Until overpopulation becomes a new version of the problem people thought it would be previously.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#307

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

newsclues wrote: post #242
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This idea of pretending that your only option is $15 cocktails really makes this argument look lame. Not to mention that the federal minimum wage is basically irrelevant in most places - where I live starting entry level pay at McDonald's is $17/hr. Cocktails were expensive when I was young, too. We just hardly ever drank them. We went to the liquor store and bought the cheapest shit we could that probably had a 50/5…

Does working at McDonalds for $17 pay the rent/bills and still give you enough spending money to live a decent lifestyle? I make $20/h as a cleaner but after bills etc, I don’t have the money for fun events, dining out or socializing beyond hanging out on discord and playing games.

Thank you so much for this comment, because it perfectly highlights the point I was trying to make.

When I was a young person in the mid 90s, I (and most of my friends) made the equivalent or less of what you make now. But we also didn't have discord or Internet multiplayer games, so we were basically forced to go hang out in person and find other cheap stuff to do.

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#308

Post by axoltl »

roncesvalles wrote: post #279
anal_reactor wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. Most people can afford grabbing a beer in a supermarket and going to the park. They just choose not to. I think the real change is that nowadays it's just easier and more practical NOT to maintain friendships. Yes, it's lonely, but it's more efficient.

Drinking outdoors (let alone at a public park) is just not a thing outside Europe.

Just from my limited experience:

Barton Springs in Austin is always brimming with people and Shiner Bock makes a frequent appearance.

Dolores Park in SF never has a dull moment and you can buy shrooms or edibles from vendors walking around.

Golden Gate Park in SF is massive and there are tons of clusters of people socializing and drinking throughout the park (especially near the Conservatory of Flowers!)

Central Park in NY in many ways mirrors Golden Gate Park only its way busier. Good luck finding a spot near the south side of the park on a sunny day. You might spot a mimosa or two, three…

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#309

Post by djeastm »

ants_everywhere wrote: post #197
extropic-engine wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

have you looked at the US lately? if you're concerned for democracy i don't think deepseek is the one you need to be most worried about

It's the one LLM we know of that is specifically trained to be opposed to democracy. Can you say more about why that doesn't concern you?

I would throw Grok in there, too, but I suppose that might get us into a political discussion...

Re: We may not like what we become if A.I. solves loneliness

#310

Post by SoftTalker »

lalaland1125 wrote: post #5

I don't think we are ready for the risk of mass manipulation through AI relationships. Imagine if Elon decides tomorrow morning that he wants to encourage all of the users of his AI relationship app to support Trump?

Does Elon still support Trump? I don't follow the presidential soap opera closely but thought they had a big falling out over the beautiful bill and he was toying with the idea of a third party?
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