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Orion Browser

kagi.com

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Re: Orion Browser

#61

Post by wiether »

eknkc wrote: post #26
bryan0 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the extremely stupid reasons kagi needs to develop a browser is because ios safari prevents setting kagi as the default search engine, so they have to do some terrible hacks to get it to kind of work.

Yeah. That’s one reason I stopped using Kagi. Its not their fault but it is what it is.

I don't remember the last time I used Safari on iOS, but once I started using Kagi, I was naturally drawn to Orion and that's been the best browser experienced I ever had on mobile.

The included ad-blocker being a big factor in the great UX.

Re: Orion Browser

#62

Post by hypotrochoid »

freediver wrote: post #34
roughly wrote: post #11

I really like Kagi, but I'm starting to get that same sense of anticipatory melancholy I used to get when I found a really good drug dealer back in the day - this product or service is fantastic, and I'm very happy to be able to give it money, but I recognize this is a short term affair and some day I'll be back to having to search for it again. I would continue to pay Kagi $10 a month forever for exactly the product…

Kagi founder here. I like simplicity too, but if that is the only thing I cared about I would have never attempted to build a paid search engine. We started working on the browser before we started working on search. There were many browsers and search engines before us, and all of them failed because you can not compete with an ecosystem company (Google) with a single product. If your customers use your search engin…

I’m personally a Kagi early adopter and Protonmail user for all other standard GSuite product replacements. I find this arrangement perfectly smooth and painless, and never once wished that the services that I get from Proton in any way interacted with the service I get from Kagi. It’s not clear to me at all that duplicating the google product spread would be the best way to extend the value to customers of Kagi search.

Re: Orion Browser

#63

Post by mediumsmart »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #56
nunez wrote: post #54

So I hate Safari with a burning passion and Firefox on iOS isn't much better. Ideally I'd run FF everywhere, but lacking Apple Pay support and iOS anti-competitively locking out extensions to non-Safari browsers make this a non-starter. I VERY BADLY want to make this my daily driver across all of my devices, but between weird rendering bugs (which are decreasing), janky 1Pass support (which is improving), lacking his…

I use Orion as my daily driver on my Mac. The bugginess has largely passed.

that is my experience too. Whole days now pass without touching another browser on the machine or the phone.

Re: Orion Browser

#64

Post by freediver »

hypotrochoid wrote: post #62
freediver wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kagi founder here. I like simplicity too, but if that is the only thing I cared about I would have never attempted to build a paid search engine. We started working on the browser before we started working on search. There were many browsers and search engines before us, and all of them failed because you can not compete with an ecosystem company (Google) with a single product. If your customers use your search engin…

I’m personally a Kagi early adopter and Protonmail user for all other standard GSuite product replacements. I find this arrangement perfectly smooth and painless, and never once wished that the services that I get from Proton in any way interacted with the service I get from Kagi. It’s not clear to me at all that duplicating the google product spread would be the best way to extend the value to customers of Kagi sear…

One use case:

I would like to be able to see my emails appear in search results when relevant. Also would like to be able to quikly search the web when writing emails. This is not rocket science but for this you need deep integration between email and search. For some reason Google didn't do this in 20 years although perfectly capable of.

Re: Orion Browser

#65

Post by freediver »

pinkmuffinere wrote: post #60

I love brave's native ad blocking, so the idea of _even MOAR_ ad blocking appeals to me. But what is the distinction between "1st party ads" vs 3rd party? I'm a noob in this arena, so I'd need an example. other notes: - Love the discussion of features instead of vibes - Even though I don't understand the comparison table, I appreciate the attempt at quick summary. - I'm not even a fan of Kagi, if anything I'm mildy o…

1st party ads - 'hosted' on the website itself

3rd party asd - 'hosted' on third party sites

Orion blocks both by default (Kagi's whole game is anti ad-tech), Brave just 3rd party ads by default.

Re: Orion Browser

#66

Post by freediver »

pinkmuffinere wrote: post #57
guywithahat wrote: post #21

It's interesting that they chose HN as the picture on their homepage; it makes you wonder how much of the company is supported by HN users. Is this site big enough to support a subscription based company that frequently advertises here?

It almost feels like a really clever landing page -- if you click the link from hacker news, it shows you a tailored experience that you'd be familiar with. But looking at the link, I see no parameters that would result in that kind of landing page customization. Also it seems contrary to Kagi's spirit to do that sort of thing.

That landing page is 5? years old. Most of Kagi/Orion users in the early days came from HN (and still do). I am a passionate HN user and I took that screenshot personally.

Re: Orion Browser

#67

Post by zamalek »

pinkmuffinere wrote: post #60

I love brave's native ad blocking, so the idea of _even MOAR_ ad blocking appeals to me. But what is the distinction between "1st party ads" vs 3rd party? I'm a noob in this arena, so I'd need an example. other notes: - Love the discussion of features instead of vibes - Even though I don't understand the comparison table, I appreciate the attempt at quick summary. - I'm not even a fan of Kagi, if anything I'm mildy o…

I'm guessing that the likes of daring fireballs ads wouldn't be blocked - they originate from the server hosting the website. Google ads and such would be blocked, because they don't originate on the site.

I can see the theory. First-party ads should (but very much could not) be more privacy friendly. Tracking the user becomes difficult because you need to convince people to add your tracking coda to their website without incentives like Ad payments. So you most likely have to tune ads to what is displayed on the page, ultimately making the page and the user's attention products (which is strictly superior to the entirety of the user being the only product).

Re: Orion Browser

#68

Post by zamalek »

freediver wrote: post #34
roughly wrote: post #11

I really like Kagi, but I'm starting to get that same sense of anticipatory melancholy I used to get when I found a really good drug dealer back in the day - this product or service is fantastic, and I'm very happy to be able to give it money, but I recognize this is a short term affair and some day I'll be back to having to search for it again. I would continue to pay Kagi $10 a month forever for exactly the product…

Kagi founder here. I like simplicity too, but if that is the only thing I cared about I would have never attempted to build a paid search engine. We started working on the browser before we started working on search. There were many browsers and search engines before us, and all of them failed because you can not compete with an ecosystem company (Google) with a single product. If your customers use your search engin…

You indicate wide extension compatibility. This is more of a thought experiment (by virtue of inbuilt adblocking), does - or do you hope/plan for - the likes of uBlock Origin work.

Re: Orion Browser

#69

Post by isUserAMonkey »

SoftTalker wrote: post #4

Installed on my iPhone. I will give it a test drive. Safari is awful.

I switched to Orion on my iPhone about a month ago from a recommendation on HN.

I’m a happy user, no real issues encountered.

The biggest annoyance I had with Safari were sites that would autoplay videos with sound.

Re: Orion Browser

#70

Post by pinkmuffinere »

zamalek wrote: post #67
pinkmuffinere wrote: post #60

I love brave's native ad blocking, so the idea of _even MOAR_ ad blocking appeals to me. But what is the distinction between "1st party ads" vs 3rd party? I'm a noob in this arena, so I'd need an example. other notes: - Love the discussion of features instead of vibes - Even though I don't understand the comparison table, I appreciate the attempt at quick summary. - I'm not even a fan of Kagi, if anything I'm mildy o…

I'm guessing that the likes of daring fireballs ads wouldn't be blocked - they originate from the server hosting the website. Google ads and such would be blocked, because they don't originate on the site. I can see the theory. First-party ads should (but very much could not) be more privacy friendly. Tracking the user becomes difficult because you need to convince people to add your tracking coda to their website wi…

lol, at first this comment confused me because I googled Daring Fireballs, and I saw no ads (ublock origin doing a really good job here). Opening on Brave though, I do indeed see the ads. Thanks for the clarifying example.
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