Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

science.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 325 posts

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#81

Post by satvikpendem »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #77
satvikpendem wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't get less oxygen the more you sleep, but sure. You're not understanding the construction of the sentence. "Flies gather more the more manure there is" means if there is more manure, then flies gather more; if you get less oxygen, you sleep more. You understood the sentence as, you sleep more therefore you get less oxygen, which is actually the converse of what I said, which is incorrect. No logical implica…

[flagged]

By sleep more, I mean sleep a longer duration of time during the day, which is absolutely true that people with sleep apnea do so, even if the quality of sleep is less. I am still not sure why you are continuing this conversation about tact when it seems to only be you taking offense to the word "obese."

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#82

Post by nahuel0x »

lolive wrote: post #7
kbrkbr wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the ancient mystery of why we need sleep might have just been answered. I would be very surprised if sleep would serve only one purpose. In complex interconnected systems you usually don't get far with monocausal explanations.

AI frenzy almost convinced me that sleep was the training of our neural network with all the prompts of the day. And now this /o\

Curious how the zeitgeist changes, on a previous AI cycle we could thought sleep was required/generated by a semi-space garbage collection brain-LISP process :)

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#83

Post by cooper_ganglia »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #80
cooper_ganglia wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You're never going to get anywhere with *gestures broadly*... this. Very self-aggrandizing, very 2016, very devoid of tact. Also, fat people have a 5-10x rate of sleep apnea over someone of a normal, healthy weight. Being fat is bad for you. That is not a "stigma", it's just factually true. You don't have to dress it up as something sexy, because being fat is neither healthy nor sexy.

[flagged]

No, I don't think I will.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#84

Post by portaouflop »

bsenftner wrote: post #31
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #2

So the ancient mystery of why we need sleep might have just been answered. The paper shows that cell‑autonomous mild uncoupling in Drosophila sleep‑inducing neurons -- via Ucp4A/Ucp4C -- keeps the flies awake by lowering mitochondrial Δp and therefore electron leak. This suggests a biochemical rationale for sleep -- which is postponed by the uncoupler. That form of pharmacological manipulation is also a very local in…

I'm curious how the few famous people that do not sleep at all, what's going on in their biochemestry? I don't mean celebrities, there are a few people who became famous because they do not sleep. They hold 2 complete careers, one during the day and one at night to keep from getting bored.

They have a different gene expression which leads to them needing less sleep.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#85

Post by otoburb »

jjk166 wrote: post #75
ddalex wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why ancient ancestors started sleeping I tend to believe that our ancestors didn't start sleeping, they started waking up ! the default pattern is sleep and conservation of energy, but you need to wake up to expend more energy for a short period in order to feed yourself efficiently

There definitely was never a life form which exclusively slept - all the critical parts of life require being awake. Life that didn't sleep, however, is possible.

Maybe not 'exclusively' slept, but koalas[1] sleep for a majority of the day (16-20 hours) in order to digest highly toxic eucalyptus leaves which constitute the main portion of their diet.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koala

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#86

Post by mynameisvlad »

satvikpendem wrote: post #81
mynameisvlad wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

By sleep more, I mean sleep a longer duration of time during the day, which is absolutely true that people with sleep apnea do so, even if the quality of sleep is less. I am still not sure why you are continuing this conversation about tact when it seems to only be you taking offense to the word "obese."

[flagged]

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#87

Post by drgiggles »

can16358p wrote: post #70
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's almost exactly what people said about the appetite -- about the biochemical pathways which govern hunger, which are known to be massively redundant and overlapping. But then Ozempic was released and it turned out there was a shortcut after all. Which is not to say that such things are necessarily "healthy" or desirable, just that you can't rule out that biochemically-modifiable characteristics, however complex…

And exactly as I said, Ozempic does more harm in the long run.

There are mountains of data that show it actually has long term benefits beyond weight loss (beyond even the obvious health markers that improve due to losing weight). I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the majority of the population ends up taking next gen drugs in this space, most of them purely for longevity.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#89

Post by drw85 »

bsenftner wrote: post #31
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #2

So the ancient mystery of why we need sleep might have just been answered. The paper shows that cell‑autonomous mild uncoupling in Drosophila sleep‑inducing neurons -- via Ucp4A/Ucp4C -- keeps the flies awake by lowering mitochondrial Δp and therefore electron leak. This suggests a biochemical rationale for sleep -- which is postponed by the uncoupler. That form of pharmacological manipulation is also a very local in…

I'm curious how the few famous people that do not sleep at all, what's going on in their biochemestry? I don't mean celebrities, there are a few people who became famous because they do not sleep. They hold 2 complete careers, one during the day and one at night to keep from getting bored.

I don't think any of those actually do not sleep. They probably sleep less than normal and skimp on sleep, but i have a hard time believing that they actually do not sleep at all.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#90

Post by nonameiguess »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #2

So the ancient mystery of why we need sleep might have just been answered. The paper shows that cell‑autonomous mild uncoupling in Drosophila sleep‑inducing neurons -- via Ucp4A/Ucp4C -- keeps the flies awake by lowering mitochondrial Δp and therefore electron leak. This suggests a biochemical rationale for sleep -- which is postponed by the uncoupler. That form of pharmacological manipulation is also a very local in…

It's long been found in exercise research that exercise itself attenuates many of the negative effects of sleep restriction. This might also explain why the military can get away with such poor sleep, because of the hard standards on minimum aerobic fitness required to even wear the uniform, and the fact that the infantry and special operators experiencing the worst sleep deprivation are also the people in the best shape. There are plenty of other adaptations you get out of aerobic exercise (capillarization, eccentric heart hypertrophy, increased red blood cell count, localized muscular endurance), but the most important and durable adaptation is more efficient mitochondrial function.
Post reply on HN