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Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

science.org

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Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#71
post #66

Sleep is super important. I’ve seen too many workaholic types that barely sleep. So many of these folks end up with serious issues later in life.

Workaholism is always just manifesting underlying psychical issues, be it some form of OCD, deep unhappiness with one's life and escapism from emptiness or similar. Such state manifests in many destructive behaviors, which then like in case of sleep create their own forces of destruction.

One can't escape psychology, one thing no school taught me (and they should have since we all deal with this in some way! plus its not that complex). Once I grokked the basics, dealing and with people and understanding them became much easier.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#72
post #22
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI frenzy almost convinced me that sleep was the training of our neural network with all the prompts of the day. And now this /o\

That's what I still 'believe'. Wake-sleep algorithm [1] is a good start for speculation. I think brain needs to be in a different mode to reorganize its weights and to forget unnecessary things to prevent overfitting. In this mode we happen to be unconscious. I also believe dreams are just hallucinations caused by random noise input to the system. The brain converts noise distribution to a meaningful distribution and…

When we don’t sleep, we can lose sensory and cognitive coherence. Mild visual hallucinations begin and reality can start slipping.

Sleep itself is characterized by coherent neural activity— the large number of brain regions with synchronized neural activity. The slow waves where huge numbers are all firing close together in a rhythm. Low frequency and high amplitude delta brainwaves (1-2 hertz).

Complex adaptive brain activity requires more complex firing than a simple rhythmic frequency. So, in a way, the complex activity must be stopped in order to support global synchrony.

Why would our neurons want to all fire synchronously? Well, it is healthy for neurons to fire together in a causal manner— neurons release growth hormones then. That neural growth during synchronized firing is the basis of “neurons that fire together wire together.” And it doesn’t seem coincidental that a successfully predicted model feels good, as in the case of successfully throw a ball in a basket. Neurons are trying to predict other neuron firing and respond to it. If they are unable to effectively, they may become like the 1/3 of our baby neurons in the cortex — they will be pruned and die.

Good feelings is positive reinforcement—behaviors leading to good feelings get reinforcement. The feeling of harmony or harmonization, where we have to balance a broad set of internal neural impulses, feels good when we do it well. We feel harmony in music — and in our own internal sensory resonance to the world.

Hypothesis 1: the harmonization of neural activity might cause conscious feelings due to the convergence of the activity to platonic forms (see Platonic Representation Hypothesis in LLM research).

Returning to sleep — this is a proposal for why sleep feels good. Synchronization might intrinsically feel good. But because the sleep also disrupts your working memory contextual attunements (ie, whatever your day was about) - taking your brain into deep synchrony — it strengthens the overall dendritic connections between the synchronizing neurons.

And, because it wears off the edges of your previous experiences — you can return refreshed.

In this way, sleep seems to contribute to the overall integrity of the operation of our intelligence. Without it, we lose integrity and internal harmony.

And yet, not sleeping is one of my favorite drugs. Can be a major performance enhancer, even if it is variable.

Hypothesis 2: Not sleeping increases the (statistical) temperature of the brain.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#73

I wonder how this relates to sleep apnea, as in that state you sleep more the less oxygen you get. By the way, many people who don't think they have it yet feel tired during the day or simply feel like they need more sleep should get tested for it, as it's not just a problem for the obese.

[flagged]

Wow imagine being offended by the mention of a direct casual connection between obesity and a health condition.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#75
post #57
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would make sense if there was a monocausal explanation of why ancient ancestors started sleeping, but then other body functions started making use of the sleeping system since it was at hand.

> why ancient ancestors started sleeping I tend to believe that our ancestors didn't start sleeping, they started waking up ! the default pattern is sleep and conservation of energy, but you need to wake up to expend more energy for a short period in order to feed yourself efficiently

There definitely was never a life form which exclusively slept - all the critical parts of life require being awake. Life that didn't sleep, however, is possible.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said you sleep more the less oxygen you get, not the converse (ie, because you get less oxygen, you sleep more). And it is a factual statement that obese people are likelier to have sleep apnea, it is not a "stigma" and there is nothing wrong in suggesting that people who aren't in that category get tested too, don't try to find things to get offended by.

[flagged]

> You don't get less oxygen the more you sleep, but sure.

You're not understanding the construction of the sentence. "Flies gather more the more manure there is" means if there is more manure, then flies gather more; if you get less oxygen, you sleep more. You understood the sentence as, you sleep more therefore you get less oxygen, which is actually the converse of what I said, which is incorrect. No logical implication is implied, it's an elided "if" in the grammatical construction.

You're taking "obese" as an insult for some reason, which says more about your thoughts on the matter than mine, which was a neutral statement. No need to passive aggressively gesture at anything.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> You don't get less oxygen the more you sleep, but sure. You're not understanding the construction of the sentence. "Flies gather more the more manure there is" means if there is more manure, then flies gather more; if you get less oxygen, you sleep more. You understood the sentence as, you sleep more therefore you get less oxygen, which is actually the converse of what I said, which is incorrect. No logical implica…

[flagged]

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#78
Could this be an explanation for why people who go without sleep for long enough eventually just die? The Guinness Book of World Records doesn't accept records on staying awake for the same reason they don't accept records for the longest game of Russian Roulette.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said you sleep more the less oxygen you get, not the converse (ie, because you get less oxygen, you sleep more). And it is a factual statement that obese people are likelier to have sleep apnea, it is not a "stigma" and there is nothing wrong in suggesting that people who aren't in that category get tested too, don't try to find things to get offended by.

[flagged]

  >You're never going to get anywhere with *gestures broadly*... this.
Very self-aggrandizing, very 2016, very devoid of tact.

Also, fat people have a 5-10x rate of sleep apnea over someone of a normal, healthy weight. Being fat is bad for you. That is not a "stigma", it's just factually true. You don't have to dress it up as something sexy, because being fat is neither healthy nor sexy.

Re: Sleep all comes down to the mitochondria

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>You're never going to get anywhere with *gestures broadly*... this. Very self-aggrandizing, very 2016, very devoid of tact. Also, fat people have a 5-10x rate of sleep apnea over someone of a normal, healthy weight. Being fat is bad for you. That is not a "stigma", it's just factually true. You don't have to dress it up as something sexy, because being fat is neither healthy nor sexy.

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