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India Launches Beta Version of Its Data Site

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Re: India Launches Beta Version of Its Data Site

#41

Post by pullo »

w1ntermute wrote: post #38
pullo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having known people who benefitted from ayurvedic treatment, I tell you that the regimen (medication and food restrictions- you are not assigned one without the other) is one of the toughest I have seen. the people who successfully get through it, swear by ayurvedic medicine. I have been to some of the facilities and met the doctors and they are above average ( by Indian standards). This is why, this mode of treatmen…

> Having known people who benefitted from ayurvedic treatment Anecdotal evidence. > needless to say many treatment centers are based in cities and visited by what you might call a more educated and worldly crowd Appeal to authority. How about some actual scientific evidence? I'm no expert on the matter, but from what I can find on Wikipedia[0], the benefits of Ayurvedic medicne were inconclusive at best. As someone w…

is it anecdotal even if it is one of your best friends? I am not so sure. ok, here is some more information. A study comparing ayurveda with allopathic treatment for Rheumatoid Arthritis. http://journals.lww.com/jclinrheum/Abstract/2011/06000/Doubl... "Conclusions: In this first-ever, double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled pilot study comparing Ayurveda, MTX, and their combination, all 3 treatments were approximately equivalent in efficacy, within the limits of a pilot study. Adverse events were numerically fewer in the Ayurveda-only group" Ayurveda is recognized by nih as alternative and complimentary medicine. http://nccam.nih.gov/health/ayurveda/introduction.htm

I think at some level, you need to believe not all doctors wear white coats. modern medicine is a few hundered years old , but people have been getting sick and have been treated since the dawn of time. When a country sets up regulatory agencies ( http://www.ccimindia.org ) , qualifies practitioners and monitors the practice ( albeit poorly) , to dismiss the structure based on wikipedia articles is incorrect to say the least. if only conclusive evidence , agreed upon by everyone is acceptable we should have stopped taking aspirin a long time ago:) http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/950817/aspirin.shtml

Re: India Launches Beta Version of Its Data Site

#42

Post by statictype »

berito wrote: post #30

Notice the use of the phrase "allopathic hospitals" in a database of number of beds available! It always cracks me up how modern medicine is referred to as just another form of medicine, like Ayurvedic or homeopathic. The Indian government is clearly of the opinion that forms of quackery that are homeopathy and Ayurveda actually work and are worthy of tax payer money.

Several medical doctors I know (including surgeons) recommend Ayurvedic treatments on occasions and I've found them to generally work well (though they generally are skeptical of homeopathy).

Do you have reason to believe that herbal remedies don't work?

Re: India Launches Beta Version of Its Data Site

#43

Post by statictype »

w1ntermute wrote: post #38
pullo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having known people who benefitted from ayurvedic treatment, I tell you that the regimen (medication and food restrictions- you are not assigned one without the other) is one of the toughest I have seen. the people who successfully get through it, swear by ayurvedic medicine. I have been to some of the facilities and met the doctors and they are above average ( by Indian standards). This is why, this mode of treatmen…

> Having known people who benefitted from ayurvedic treatment Anecdotal evidence. > needless to say many treatment centers are based in cities and visited by what you might call a more educated and worldly crowd Appeal to authority. How about some actual scientific evidence? I'm no expert on the matter, but from what I can find on Wikipedia[0], the benefits of Ayurvedic medicne were inconclusive at best. As someone w…

I like how you start by pointing out logical fallacies in someone's argument and then go on to say things like "I'm sure they would have definitely given it a shot if it's as great as you claimed".

Like I said elsewhere here, I know several medical doctors (well qualified ones as well) who recommend ayurvedic treatments in certain situations (not the commercialized medicines you get in shops, but more basic 'take these things and grind them and eat it before lunch' medicines and they work reasonably well.

I think I'll take my anecdotal evidence over your link to a Wikipedia article stating inconclusive evidence.

Re: India Launches Beta Version of Its Data Site

#44

Post by amackera »

statictype wrote: post #42
berito wrote: post #30

Notice the use of the phrase "allopathic hospitals" in a database of number of beds available! It always cracks me up how modern medicine is referred to as just another form of medicine, like Ayurvedic or homeopathic. The Indian government is clearly of the opinion that forms of quackery that are homeopathy and Ayurveda actually work and are worthy of tax payer money.

Several medical doctors I know (including surgeons) recommend Ayurvedic treatments on occasions and I've found them to generally work well (though they generally are skeptical of homeopathy). Do you have reason to believe that herbal remedies don't work?

Remedies that have been subjected to scientific experimentation to determine if they are effective are by definition "evidence-based", or "modern" medicine. Any medicine that is not evidence-based should be treated with suspicion and skepticism, and frankly should not be called medicine at all in my opinion.

Re: India Launches Beta Version of Its Data Site

#45

Post by amackera »

statictype wrote: post #43
w1ntermute wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having known people who benefitted from ayurvedic treatment Anecdotal evidence. > needless to say many treatment centers are based in cities and visited by what you might call a more educated and worldly crowd Appeal to authority. How about some actual scientific evidence? I'm no expert on the matter, but from what I can find on Wikipedia[0], the benefits of Ayurvedic medicne were inconclusive at best. As someone w…

I like how you start by pointing out logical fallacies in someone's argument and then go on to say things like "I'm sure they would have definitely given it a shot if it's as great as you claimed". Like I said elsewhere here, I know several medical doctors (well qualified ones as well) who recommend ayurvedic treatments in certain situations (not the commercialized medicines you get in shops, but more basic 'take the…

You can believe whatever you would like to believe, but the fact of the matter is that there is no scientific evidence to suggest that ayurvedic treatments are effective whatsoever.

Re: India Launches Beta Version of Its Data Site

#46

Post by statictype »

amackera wrote: post #44
statictype wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several medical doctors I know (including surgeons) recommend Ayurvedic treatments on occasions and I've found them to generally work well (though they generally are skeptical of homeopathy). Do you have reason to believe that herbal remedies don't work?

Remedies that have been subjected to scientific experimentation to determine if they are effective are by definition "evidence-based", or "modern" medicine. Any medicine that is not evidence-based should be treated with suspicion and skepticism, and frankly should not be called medicine at all in my opinion.

That's reasonable. I agree that medicines that have not been subjected to scientific tests should be treated with skepticism.

Re: India Launches Beta Version of Its Data Site

#48

Post by hari1978 »

amackera wrote: post #45
statictype wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how you start by pointing out logical fallacies in someone's argument and then go on to say things like "I'm sure they would have definitely given it a shot if it's as great as you claimed". Like I said elsewhere here, I know several medical doctors (well qualified ones as well) who recommend ayurvedic treatments in certain situations (not the commercialized medicines you get in shops, but more basic 'take the…

You can believe whatever you would like to believe, but the fact of the matter is that there is no scientific evidence to suggest that ayurvedic treatments are effective whatsoever.

It's scientifically proved on various occasions.

For instance an year back for patient with chronic trigeminal neurological pain, we have given cyberknife treatment. Most advanced radiation thearphy for this kind of pains. Initially everything was ok and the pain bounced back in 3 months. We kept the patient continuously in pain killer for so many months, before they found a very old Ayurveda practitioner somewhere deep inside southern part of India. He assured them they can take the ayurvedic medicines along with our allopathic medicines and can discontinue all the allopathic and pain killers gradually.

We have accepted to that as honestly, we left with no other option as this is an very rare case and we recorded the patient status on day to day basis. After 2 months of consumption, to our surprise, the patient has shown gradual improvements and discontinued the pain killers in the 3rd month. After an year, she discontinued ayurvedic too and living a normal life.

We still have the entire medical history of the patient, and using ayurvedic as a lost resort for trigeminal neurologia issues. But I agree, this is a rare case, and it has to be thoroughly experimented for general practice.

Re: India Launches Beta Version of Its Data Site

#49

Post by berito »

mayutana wrote: post #40
berito wrote: post #30

Notice the use of the phrase "allopathic hospitals" in a database of number of beds available! It always cracks me up how modern medicine is referred to as just another form of medicine, like Ayurvedic or homeopathic. The Indian government is clearly of the opinion that forms of quackery that are homeopathy and Ayurveda actually work and are worthy of tax payer money.

"are worthy of tax payer money": As far as I know, most of these ayurvedic/homeopathy institutes (both for education as well as treatment) do not receive public funding.

The Indian government shamelessly squanders tax money on both Ayurveda and homeopathy. http://www.indianexpress.com/news/no-extra-fund-for-ayurvedi... check this link. Some quacks in the Indian state of gujrat were denied additional funding. On a side note, gujrat is also the state where state sponsored ethnic cleansing happened not so long ago! To be fair, I'd rather they use tax payer money to fund quackery than kill some of the tax payers!

Re: India Launches Beta Version of Its Data Site

#50

Post by harigov »

pierrend wrote: post #17
scorpion032 wrote: post #14

One of the core values of any government should be to make available all of it's data freely to all citizens available via API. Everything being publicly auctioned and the free data available publicly will stop many of the scams of the nature India is going through right now. I am not sure if any one would, but if someone comes up with a bill that holds the powers-that-be responsible under the "Duty to Report" bill,…

> "make available all of it's data freely" Not "all" the data. Many datasets should not be shared. Good reasons include: a)security reasons b)ecology reasons (don't say where endangered species are) c)personal data d) current trial

Make all the information accessible but restrict access based on User privileges. If some piece of information like endangered species location is to be known, user must identify himself/herself and then proceed to use the data. Anything happens to the endangered species, you know who all got access to that information. Similarly for other data.
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