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Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

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Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#501

Post by 30gdan »

ceejayoz wrote: post #485
30gdan wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MIT : https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/are-electric-vehicles-defini... Quote : This intensive battery manufacturing means that building a new EV can produce around 80% more emissions than building a comparable gas-powered car Show me anything else if you have ; just don't troll dude...

The very first line of your article says "yes… they more than make up for it by driving much cleaner under nearly any conditions". It seems you agree with the poster upthread, who stated "much better overall than ICE".

First of all don't forget the important 'Over the course of their driving lifetimes' before your quote; it changes everything. So yeah this MIT article says EV is 80% more CO2 expensive to build but makes up over it's lifetime not quite exatcly what you are saying.

Also this article does not take into account recycling of batteries which is way dirty that recycling ICEs.

And my initial remark was show me data, show me interesting stuff and you just dumbly troll (quoting truncated stuff) on what I have shown you. Nice man, u smart !!!

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#502

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #409
theshrike79 wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the thing with good hybrids. The "gas pedal" becomes a "I want to go faster/slower" pedal, its position has zero impact on the RPM. As an anecdote: A security company I know only buys Toyota Hybrids for their guards just because of that. They have a habit of driving cars like they stole them and normal ICE cars break down from that kind of abuse. Hybrids won't let you abuse them, they pick the RPM and you dea…

Do all Toyotas do that? I'm pretty sure that my dad's Corolla will rev the engine when I press the gas if the engine is already running. I'm also surprised for the first few minutes when I drive it how little "engine braking" it has (my habit is from riding a big motorbike).

it's possible that the engine rev is just the speakers. a lot of cars are doing fake engine sounds.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#503

Post by empath75 »

mjevans wrote: post #142

Ban the stop and go hell of rush hour. Cars rolling at freeway speed without stopping pollute way less than drivers stuck behind idiots who can't just go forward down the road at the speed limit. The human suffering and ecological impact reduced if only there would be a focus on enforcing speed minimums...

What causes stop and go is actually pressure waves that propagate backwards through traffic once density hits a critical point.

When everyone is following at a reasonable distance (ie, there's a couple of car lengths between cars), if someone has to hit the brakes for some reason (sun in their eyes, car cuts them off, etc), then the car behind can slow instead of stopping, and it doesn't propagate. Notably, the person who triggered the wave doesn't even need to stop. If the person behind them is following close enough, just slowing down a little bit will cause the person behind to slow _more_, and the person behind them to stop.

Once everyone is stacked on top of each other, any interruption in the flow of traffic propogates backwards. That's why when you get to the "end" of the traffic congestion it looks like people stopped for "no reason". But you've just hit the front of a pressure wave. You'll probably hit another one in a little while if density doesn't ease up ahead of you.

The only way to eliminate stop and go traffic is to stop people from entering onto the freeway after it hits a certain density.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#504

Post by Karawebnetwork »

steveBK123 wrote: post #391

Yes this is why EV brake pads last 2-3 times more miles. They aren’t being used due to the regen braking.

I wonder how does this compare with engine braking. Many people in the comment section are surprised that their EV's pads are lasting up to 4 years yet as someone who always drove manual cars and who leverages engine braking this sound like a normal length.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#506

Post by graemep »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #459
graemep wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Curb weight of a Tesla Model (Long Range) is only 9% over a comparable BMW 3 Series. Which means 40% more road maintenance. > And we're just getting started with battery chemistries and renewables energy. This can only get better. Which implies it is better to delay switching until we have better batteries

>Which implies it is better to delay switching until we have better batteries Let's discard everything but road maintenance? No thanks. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co2-mitigation-15c

> Let's discard everything but road maintenance?

not what I said. The points were:

1. its not all good.

2. if we buy cars with battery chemistries that will soon be replaced with better ones there is a good argument for delaying purchases. Not having to replace the cars again, for example.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#507

Post by ceejayoz »

30gdan wrote: post #501
ceejayoz wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very first line of your article says "yes… they more than make up for it by driving much cleaner under nearly any conditions". It seems you agree with the poster upthread, who stated "much better overall than ICE".

First of all don't forget the important 'Over the course of their driving lifetimes' before your quote; it changes everything. So yeah this MIT article says EV is 80% more CO2 expensive to build but makes up over it's lifetime not quite exatcly what you are saying. Also this article does not take into account recycling of batteries which is way dirty that recycling ICEs. And my initial remark was show me data, show m…

> it changes everything

It changes nothing. People buy cars to drive them.

> Also this article does not take into account recycling of batteries which is way dirty that recycling ICEs.

I'm sorry you can't be bothered to read your own link. This is in the footnotes as a source for it:

Erik Emilsson and Lisbeth Dahllöf. "Lithium-ion vehicle battery production: Status 2019 on energy use, CO2 emissions, use of metals, products environmental footprint, and recycling." IVL Swedish Environmental Research Institute, in cooperation with the Swedish Energy Agency, Report C444, November 2019.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#508

Post by nixass »

cperciva wrote: post #176
nine_k wrote: post #41

I suppose the same should apply to hybrid cars, which outnumber pure EVs significantly [1]. The effect comes from converting the kinetic energy back to the battery charge via generation instead of wasting it via friction, which is the whole point of hybrids. [1]: https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/how-many-electric...

which is the whole point of hybrids Part of the point, not the whole point. Regenerative breaking is absolutely a win; but there can also be a significant benefit from allowing the ICE to remain in the RPM "sweet spot" rather than moving around a larger range.

That's the case only with CVT transmission

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#510

Post by 30gdan »

ceejayoz wrote: post #486
30gdan wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm saying it's inefficient because of a combination of many things not only shipping. Also add to this the fact that your electricity in the US cames from fossil fuel and you'll see how clean your EV is !

From your own source: > In countries that get most of their energy from burning dirty coal, the emissions numbers for EVs don’t look nearly as good—but they’re still on par with or better than burning gasoline. Trump's own EPA calls your argument the #1 myth about EVs. https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths

Myth #2 numbers from graphical representation are totally off from the 80% initial C02 difference in the MIT study. IDK where these numebrs come from but I'd tend to trust the MIT more than some propaganda from your beloved president.

Same goes for myth#1 IMO numbers are Trump related propaganda and have nothing to do with reality. Furthermore on myth #1 they talk about efficiency of EV vs ICE but totally forget to mention the efficiency of generating that said energy : 33% efficiency for coal based electricity generation VS 90% for petroleum refinement .... In the end when you sum up overall efficiencies are identical so I call bullshit and propaganda ...

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