Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

modernengineeringmarvels.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

481–490 of 783 posts

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#481

Post by sofixa »

stephen_g wrote: post #5

Good to have more data points and evidence, but this seems extremely well established by now? Zero tailpipe emissions, drastically removed brake dust, slightly higher tire wear (due to weight), but much better overall than ICE.

> slightly higher tire wear (due to weight)

And thus higher tire particle pollution. And it's not slightly, EVs are on average 10-15% heavier than similar ICE vehicles. We've now found that a lot of the various small particle pollution (e.g. in bodies of water) come from tires.

So, while still drastically better than ICEs, they still have externalities (pollution, time wasted in traffic, vehicle accidents) and there should still be efforts to try to reduce the number of cars on the roads instead of just replacing them 1:1 and calling it a day.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#482

Post by 30gdan »

mmaurizi wrote: post #424
30gdan wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much better at what ? Do you have decent data for what it takes (CO2, child labour , cost of supply chain, ...) to make your Lithium based battery VS melting an ICE ? Same question for recycling ? Comparing only the lifecycles of products doesn't make any sense if you don't put in perspective creation & destruction and this is where the massive lie is, no EV constructor has ever been transparent about this because it…

Ships are actually much more fuel efficient than trucks, by weight/volume. Saying it must be inefficient because it includes ship transit instead of trucking "locally" is innumerate.

I'm saying it's inefficient because of a combination of many things not only shipping. Also add to this the fact that your electricity in the US cames from fossil fuel and you'll see how clean your EV is !

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#483

Post by sokoloff »

recursive wrote: post #461
throw0101d wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> […] but there can also be a significant benefit from allowing the ICE to remain in the RPM "sweet spot" rather than moving around a larger range. Which is why I'm surprised electric cars with range extenders aren't a bigger thing: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_extender Have the powertrain be all-electric, and have a battery pack, but for those with range anxiety have a small generator as an option that woul…

Range anxiety seems to go away after your first week of EV driving.

I'd say more that it evolves rather than goes away. We've had our BEV for over a decade and it's the car we tend to choose to drive for short distance errands. We like it by all means, but when one of us needs to take the hybrid car for a weekend or a local business trip, we still have to plan out to make sure the other can manage whatever we need to do with just the BEV.

As dboreham says in the sibling comment, the range anxiety morphs into charger-availability anxiety. Even if I know a charger physically exists at my destination, if it's 45% or more of the range away, I still need to worry that it will be working, that my access will work, that it won't be occupied or blocked, etc.

In nearly 40 years of driving, I almost never researched gasoline availability (through the Nevada desert and in Central America, I did).

In a little over a decade of BEV driving, I've done a lot of EVSE (charger) researching.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#484

Post by 30gdan »

ceejayoz wrote: post #468
30gdan wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much better at what ? Do you have decent data for what it takes (CO2, child labour , cost of supply chain, ...) to make your Lithium based battery VS melting an ICE ? Same question for recycling ? Comparing only the lifecycles of products doesn't make any sense if you don't put in perspective creation & destruction and this is where the massive lie is, no EV constructor has ever been transparent about this because it…

> Do you have decent data...? > just cannot be cleaner... Someone doesn't!

MIT : https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/are-electric-vehicles-defini...

Quote : This intensive battery manufacturing means that building a new EV can produce around 80% more emissions than building a comparable gas-powered car

Show me anything else if you have ; just don't troll dude...

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#485

Post by ceejayoz »

30gdan wrote: post #484
ceejayoz wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you have decent data...? > just cannot be cleaner... Someone doesn't!

MIT : https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/are-electric-vehicles-defini... Quote : This intensive battery manufacturing means that building a new EV can produce around 80% more emissions than building a comparable gas-powered car Show me anything else if you have ; just don't troll dude...

The very first line of your article says "yes… they more than make up for it by driving much cleaner under nearly any conditions".

It seems you agree with the poster upthread, who stated "much better overall than ICE".

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#486

Post by ceejayoz »

30gdan wrote: post #482
mmaurizi wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ships are actually much more fuel efficient than trucks, by weight/volume. Saying it must be inefficient because it includes ship transit instead of trucking "locally" is innumerate.

I'm saying it's inefficient because of a combination of many things not only shipping. Also add to this the fact that your electricity in the US cames from fossil fuel and you'll see how clean your EV is !

From your own source:

> In countries that get most of their energy from burning dirty coal, the emissions numbers for EVs don’t look nearly as good—but they’re still on par with or better than burning gasoline.

Trump's own EPA calls your argument the #1 myth about EVs. https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#487

Post by MSFT_Edging »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #409
theshrike79 wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the thing with good hybrids. The "gas pedal" becomes a "I want to go faster/slower" pedal, its position has zero impact on the RPM. As an anecdote: A security company I know only buys Toyota Hybrids for their guards just because of that. They have a habit of driving cars like they stole them and normal ICE cars break down from that kind of abuse. Hybrids won't let you abuse them, they pick the RPM and you dea…

Do all Toyotas do that? I'm pretty sure that my dad's Corolla will rev the engine when I press the gas if the engine is already running. I'm also surprised for the first few minutes when I drive it how little "engine braking" it has (my habit is from riding a big motorbike).

I know for a fact you can neutral-drop a prius.

I know it's not exactly the same, but I was a teenager and curious, and you can rev them and shift into drive with some heel-toe finesse. Not sure if this works on the newer ones, this one was an early 2010s model.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#488

Post by 1234letshaveatw »

sofixa wrote: post #481
stephen_g wrote: post #5

Good to have more data points and evidence, but this seems extremely well established by now? Zero tailpipe emissions, drastically removed brake dust, slightly higher tire wear (due to weight), but much better overall than ICE.

> slightly higher tire wear (due to weight) And thus higher tire particle pollution. And it's not slightly, EVs are on average 10-15% heavier than similar ICE vehicles. We've now found that a lot of the various small particle pollution (e.g. in bodies of water) come from tires. So, while still drastically better than ICEs, they still have externalities (pollution, time wasted in traffic, vehicle accidents) and there…

I'm sure you feel the same way about cutting down on cell phones right? How about we just let people keep their cars (preferably EVs), but feel free to go live in a dense cell block and eat bug juice if that is what floats your boat.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#489

Post by potato3732842 »

matsemann wrote: post #213
mjevans wrote: post #142

Ban the stop and go hell of rush hour. Cars rolling at freeway speed without stopping pollute way less than drivers stuck behind idiots who can't just go forward down the road at the speed limit. The human suffering and ecological impact reduced if only there would be a focus on enforcing speed minimums...

It's just traffic. The arrogance of thinking everyone else is the problem is kinda weird. You're just as responsible for the congestion and pollution.

Quality of operation absolutely is a factor in the equation. The overall results seem to get dragged down to the lowest common denominator. Something like a park-and-ride lot after an arrival cleans out way faster/better than a school despite both more than saturating whatever their entry onto the main road is.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#490

Post by potato3732842 »

djrj477dhsnv wrote: post #148
mjevans wrote: post #142

Ban the stop and go hell of rush hour. Cars rolling at freeway speed without stopping pollute way less than drivers stuck behind idiots who can't just go forward down the road at the speed limit. The human suffering and ecological impact reduced if only there would be a focus on enforcing speed minimums...

Even if everyone drove optimally, every road is going to reach a capacity where its physically impossible to maintain a certain speed. It's similar to network congestion. Mandating that everyone drive faster won't solve anything.

I think if find a way to fix the worst of the worst it'd probably up the throughputs and speeds a lot in the same way that quashing TCP retrans problems does.
Post reply on HN