Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

modernengineeringmarvels.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 783 posts

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#351

Post by altairprime »

cyberax wrote: post #182
altairprime wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all of us renters were forced to convert to electric there’d never be an open charger in any city again for the next five years, because no landlord will voluntarily afford that cost, and no municipal region can pass a ballot measure to afford that cost. California’s impending ban of combustion car sales hinges wholly on a magical DC-charging network that doesn’t exist in U.S. cities yet (i.e. at parking meters),…

> If all of us renters were forced to convert to electric there’d never be an open charger in any city again for the next five years, because no landlord will voluntarily afford that cost, and no municipal region can pass a ballot measure to afford that cost. Landlords can charge tenants over the price of electricity. > What city has charging available for an average of greater than one spot per five hundred multifam…

The difficult is not electricity prices; those can simply be tariff'd for overhead-slash-profit as all U.S. chargers do already. The difficulty is building out hundreds of chargers within a single city block's worth of the city's x,y grid. That level of power density is generally only seen in heavy industrial zones, and residential distribution grids can barely cope with air conditioners, much less with electric vehicles on top of that, before the prospect of upgrading every multifamily residential zone from low-density power to high-density power.

Napkin math time. Assuming that Shanghai has ~1% of China's 420 million vehicles, given that Shanghai has ~2% of China's population (~8 million) and assuming a car ownership rate of 0.5; then Shanghai can be estimated to have 4 million vehicles, while only having 0.8 million charging locations (as the article indicates). 20% certainly does exceed 0.2%, and they're ahead of the game with ~2 charging locations per EV today — but that also means that they've only converted ~10% of Shanghai's gasoline vehicle population and are only provisioned to support 20% conversion right now.

However, I think that China has a significant advantage versus the U.S. — they are primarily selling very small vehicles for intra-city use. So, their charger capacities can be significantly lower per vehicle than in the U.S., which reduces their difficulty of electric conversations probably by a full order of magnitude from ours.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#352

Post by spuz »

pjc50 wrote: post #339
nine_k wrote: post #41

I suppose the same should apply to hybrid cars, which outnumber pure EVs significantly [1]. The effect comes from converting the kinetic energy back to the battery charge via generation instead of wasting it via friction, which is the whole point of hybrids. [1]: https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/how-many-electric...

UK stats are different: https://www.zap-map.com/ev-stats/ev-market , possibly due to the shorter max travel distances. > As of the end of June 2025, there were 2,450,462 plug-in cars, with over 1,585,000 battery-electric cars and nearly 865,000 PHEVs, registered in the UK. > There are more fully electric cars than there are plug-in hybrids on UK roads and the gap has been widening. In 2021, fully electric cars accoun…

Your source doesn't consider non-plug-in hybrids also known as HEVs because zapmap are a company that sell charging services. The number of HEVs in the UK is about twice the the number of PHEVs so the total number of hybrids is still higher than the total number of BEVs. In 2024, 6% of vehicles on the road were hybrid compared with 3.7% fully electric.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/more-than-a-million-evs-on-uk-roads-a...

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#353

Post by ohdeargodno »

usrusr wrote: post #285
pkolaczk wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another part of the point is that you can pack a much smaller and more efficient ICE and then substitute the missing power and torque from electric motors when needed. Most cars are not used at max power all the time. You need max power only at short times when accelerating. With pure ICE there is the tradeoff - a bigger engine will get you more max power / max torque but is going to be less fuel efficient because of…

On paper, yes, but did that ever happen? Sorry for being sarcastic, but where I live the frugal hybrid is exceptionally rare and the "same big engine, but driving a much heavier car" hybrid is omnipresent. The kind of people who might buy the frugal one buy second or third hand while almost all buyers of factory new pick the "same big engine" option, and those are the ones who decide what's available on the second ha…

In most countries, yes. Despite the push for SUV-styled cards (which are heavier than a regular city car, but not by that much), engines have been small.

Toyota Yaris - HSD - 1.5L 4cyl Renault Clio - E-Tech - 1.6L Hyundai Kona (SUV) - 1.6L Honda Jazz - 1.5L Peugeot 208 - 1.2L Peugeot 3008 (SUV) - 1.6L Peugeot 5008 (Family SUV) - 2L And the list goes on. Even BMW with it's xDrive puts out 1.5L engines.

Huge engines are only common in two places: sports cars (and even then, only a specific category like AMGs and friends, because even a Porsche 992 only has a 3L engine) and the US.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#354

Post by spuz »

guidoiaquinti wrote: post #336
nine_k wrote: post #41

I suppose the same should apply to hybrid cars, which outnumber pure EVs significantly [1]. The effect comes from converting the kinetic energy back to the battery charge via generation instead of wasting it via friction, which is the whole point of hybrids. [1]: https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/how-many-electric...

I came across a really interesting video yesterday ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aubi3cK8Ym0 ) that touches on brake-dust pollution. It also explains how regenerative (kinetic-energy) charging can cut down on heat pollution, something I hadn’t realized before. That’s actually a big deal for underground metro systems; for instance, the London Tube keeps getting hotter every year.

Yes indeed the London underground does use regenerative braking on many of their lines. The cool thing about a direct rail power system is that the voltage generated from trains that are braking can be fed back into the power rail to instantaneously power other trains on the same line that are accelerating. No need to carry the extra weight of a battery or flywheel. And like you say, it helps keep the tunnels cooler.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#356

Post by apelapan »

stavros wrote: post #297
apelapan wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have learned my lesson on regen. Lots of people online (and offline, for that matter) told me that you'll get used to the Tesla behaviour in no time and not to worry about it feeling weird during the test drive. Many thousands kilometers later I hate it almost as much as at the start, so lack of regen configuration will be a dealbreaker next time I pick a new car.

Hmm, what do you hate about it? I have a BYD and I always leave it at "strong", as otherwise it's too little braking (same as an ICE).

There are two aspect I don't like:

1. It is inconsistent, especially during winter and when fully charged.

2. Crossings with shrubbery/objects that hides approaching pedestrians/cars/bikes and it is rare that there is anyone actually crossing. I encounter these several times per day.

My preferred way of approaching #2 is to reduce speed well ahead, start gliding and put my foot on the break pedal to be ready for a complete halt in the rare case (once in a 500 maybe) that I need to give way to someone. In the Tesla I must reduce speed to almost standstill and creep slooooowly, since it would take half a second to move the right foot to the break.

I understand it sounds like an extreme corner case, but for me it is all the time every day. Central Scandinavia.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#357

Post by seb1204 »

nine_k wrote: post #41

I suppose the same should apply to hybrid cars, which outnumber pure EVs significantly [1]. The effect comes from converting the kinetic energy back to the battery charge via generation instead of wasting it via friction, which is the whole point of hybrids. [1]: https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/how-many-electric...

Many hybrids are not driven to max regenerative breaking. You need to drive and look ahead to make good use of the regeneration. Short distance breaking is still fast and using the discs.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#358

Post by KaiserPro »

spuz wrote: post #354
guidoiaquinti wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came across a really interesting video yesterday ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aubi3cK8Ym0 ) that touches on brake-dust pollution. It also explains how regenerative (kinetic-energy) charging can cut down on heat pollution, something I hadn’t realized before. That’s actually a big deal for underground metro systems; for instance, the London Tube keeps getting hotter every year.

Yes indeed the London underground does use regenerative braking on many of their lines. The cool thing about a direct rail power system is that the voltage generated from trains that are braking can be fed back into the power rail to instantaneously power other trains on the same line that are accelerating. No need to carry the extra weight of a battery or flywheel. And like you say, it helps keep the tunnels cooler.

It has to be the same segment, which is a bit of a pain to manage. The amount of power being fed in is getting close to megawatts.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#359

Post by pjc50 »

spuz wrote: post #352
pjc50 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK stats are different: https://www.zap-map.com/ev-stats/ev-market , possibly due to the shorter max travel distances. > As of the end of June 2025, there were 2,450,462 plug-in cars, with over 1,585,000 battery-electric cars and nearly 865,000 PHEVs, registered in the UK. > There are more fully electric cars than there are plug-in hybrids on UK roads and the gap has been widening. In 2021, fully electric cars accoun…

Your source doesn't consider non-plug-in hybrids also known as HEVs because zapmap are a company that sell charging services. The number of HEVs in the UK is about twice the the number of PHEVs so the total number of hybrids is still higher than the total number of BEVs. In 2024, 6% of vehicles on the road were hybrid compared with 3.7% fully electric. https://www.smmt.co.uk/more-than-a-million-evs-on-uk-roads-a...

I wonder which vehicles that is - is that predominantly the non-pluggable Prius?

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#360

Post by KaiserPro »

brtkwr wrote: post #49
ghushn3 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you doing to your tires that they only last 10k miles? I think that might be a driver error issue, because my EV (a heavier sedan) basically never needed tire replacement barring me running over a screw or something.

Just normal driving, it wasn’t quite so bad on our previous car which was a Nissan Leaf (with 30kWh battery) but our current Kia Niro just has a lot bigger batter (64kWh) and it is a lot heavier I suppose, the tyres just don’t seem to last as long. I’m pretty sure I’m using summer tyres all year round (I live in the UK) this was recommended by the dealer

I too am UK based, but I have a Zoe, which is not as heavy as the NEO.

But my inlaw has a neo from new and hasn't replaced the tyres yet, and hes an auto obsessive. He lives in the midlands and drives 18k a year.

Post reply on HN