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Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

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Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously charging back Hyatt won't get you banned from Hilton. And the response question would be: Why would you returned to a hotel chain that scammed you?

Because that's where you job books when you travel?

Then that sounds like the employers problem, though. Hopefully they audit their expense accounts for stunts like that.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#322
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally speaking, no. Most major hotel chains require a credit card.

Credit card is a proxy for an acceptable credit score. It's a filter so they can exclude irresponsible people without exposing themselves to claims of discrimination or racism. Unfortunately people who simply choose to live without using credit are caught up in that too.

I’ve seen some hotels actually take out an authorization hold for the deposit. That can be done on debit and credit cards.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Class action lawsuits are a boon for corpos. They take what should be many separate instances of fraud with unknown unknowns and tie them all off in one small garbage bag. Half the money goes to the attorneys and the other half is a token payment or even just funds a coupon to encourage doing more business with the perpetrator. I'd really like to see some service that facilitates you opting out of a class action, and…

They're a boom compared the the impossible ideal world where every instance is prosecuted separately, but barring the superhuman feat of getting thousands of individuals to show up to court, they are certainly far worse for corporations than any realistic alternate scenario.

One alternative is having consumer protection laws with teeth and state-sponsored consumer protection agencies pursuing lawsuits to enforce their boundaries. It works fairly well that way in some European countries.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#324
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The awesome thing about black-box algorithms is they can't be challenged when they're wrong I want to call this "responsibility laundering". You get money, but wash away any responsibility, thus cleaning it.

The more stuff is managed by algorithms, the more it’ll become important that there is a legal right to challenge them and even hold those who adopt or implement them some kind of accountable.

For now, we have to rely on the social algorithm of 'reputation'

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a cop out. What's the point of a brand if quality control is all over the place? Most McDonald's are franchises, and they famously give very similar experiences wherever you are. Not identical, obviously, but a Big Mac is a Big Mac. This is absolutely on Hyatt corporate. They should have policies regulating these types of detection systems.

> What's the point of a brand if quality control is all over the place? Extracting rents comes in all shapes and sizes.

But in that case brand association is an empty signal. As a paying customer, I can't meaningfully infer anything from it, and would thus best disregard it entirely.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AirBnB partiers are a real problem, I live in a tourist destination and regularly hear horror stories about a residential neighborhood suddenly having crowds descend on a house that's become a party rental. There's nobody to notice it getting out of hand and tell them to chill before the neighbors call the cops because the owner is a holding company on the other side of the country. Of course Airbnbs are also a real…

Then don't rent your house. This is a risk of rental properties. Look, if you have a house in a tourist spot and you say "no parties!", you're not gonna make any money. And if the residents don't like said parties, they can rally together to make AirBNBs illegal in their area. That's how many (most?) touristy places are.

This is just pushing the externalities to the residents. It takes several months for airbnbs to get banned, and it's tough for smaller cities to get the bans enforced.

There must be a better answer than "pass a law so the american multinational does a better job at regulating its rentals"

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#327

Synopsis and excerpt: [Rest] markets itself as a way to "unlock a new revenue stream" with the help of a "robust algorithm" for detecting smoking. Hotels where these sensors are installed rack up complaints and negative reviews, after Rest sensors register false positives - thereby unlocking that revenue stream for the hotels. The awesome thing about black-box algorithms is they can't be challenged when they're wrong…

They're disrupting the scam market by creating new and innovative ways to scam customers out of their money. Seriously, why does every company these days seem to be running scams? You don't need that! You already make money - just keep doing that!

This escalated with the Mag 7 and surveillance capitalism. Now everyone wants to do it. Good for margins!

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#328

Reminds me of cities shortening yellow lights to make money off of red light cameras. The thing is that the cameras are supposed to make the public safer. That’s what they are meant to do. But they’re so expensive that you need a certain number of tickets to offset them (but whoever heard of public safety being a profit center instead of a loss leader?). It’s a proven fact that short yellows lead to more accidents. S…

Markets are efficient at extracting value from things, but what that value is needs to be determined before we blindly create a market for it. In the traffic light case you mention the value is money, when it should be safety. Traffic lights are installed to ensure traffic flow and safety, so getting a monetary return on a safety device should be non-sensical, but here we are. We should not be involving private marke…

How do you actually create aligned incentives though? Goodhard's law, cobra effects and generalized coordination problems really do seem pervasive.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#329
post #107

> “unlock a new revenue stream” Monetizing fire safety. Lovely. Appears this company rebranded from NoiseAware. More tech to monitor "valued" guests...this time on noise levels

It's the consequence of growth capitalism. When it's not enough to make money, you have to make more money this quarter than you did last, then it's really only a matter of time until everything is monetised under the exclusive logic of greed, devoid of any other considerations of a moral or human order. Public goods, water fountains, libraries, beaches, forests. Basic state functions. Your attention, at every moment…

"It's the consequence of growth capitalism. When it's not enough to make money, you have to make more money this quarter than you did last, then it's really only a matter of time ..."

Agreed.

An environment of increasing interest rates exacerbates this.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#330
post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have no idea what “mail” is Not a native speaker. How do you refer to the pieces of paper that the Royal Mail sometimes drop through your letterbox?

Ironically, despite the company being called the Royal Mail, the letters it delivers are referred to as "post". This is unlike the US Postal Service, which delivers "mail".

Interesting! Thanks.
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