Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 533 posts

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#201

Post by badc0ffee »

DudeOpotomus wrote: post #131
vintermann wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often I wonder if some scammers (and this is totally a scam) basically pay a premium to feel like they've outsmarted people, or for the smirking satisfaction that their victims can't do anything about it. Some scams are so much work for so little gain, or so obviously counterproductive in anything but the short term, that it seems like that.

No, it's just stupidity and myopia. Like those screens that replaced glass beverage cases in liquor stores a few years ago. Not one customer liked them. Not one customer wanted them and the results were beyond terrible. People literally stopped buying. But people actually invested millions into that company and other people actually bought their products and thought "gee this is great". Imagine how disconnected you h…

> Like those screens that replaced glass beverage cases in liquor stores a few years ago.

The what now?

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#202

Post by wcunning »

mindslight wrote: post #186
abtinf wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a candidate for class action lawsuits against the hotel, the brand, and the sensor company?

Class action lawsuits are a boon for corpos. They take what should be many separate instances of fraud with unknown unknowns and tie them all off in one small garbage bag. Half the money goes to the attorneys and the other half is a token payment or even just funds a coupon to encourage doing more business with the perpetrator. I'd really like to see some service that facilitates you opting out of a class action, and…

There was a big thing about this a few years ago -- companies didn't want class actions (too expensive in lawyers, primarily), so they forced binding arbitration agreements into their EULA. Then a big law firm filed thousands of binding arbitrations on behalf of what was basically the class. The company had to pay $1000's/arbitration in fees to the arbitration company, which also didn't have an incentive to reduce the number of arbitrations when the company tried to get out of it. Turned into an incentive to not put binding arbitration clauses in agreements...

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#203

Post by yubiox »

newAccount2025 wrote: post #187
hansvm wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big problem is the power imbalance. There's a reason they start your stay by putting a hold on a credit card. And even if you could charge them, they can afford a legal battle better than you.

Can’t you do a charge back? Isn’t this a key kind of protection that credit cards give you?

Only if you want to get banned from ever staying in a hotel again

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#204

Post by rendaw »

csomar wrote: post #88
sneak wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AmEx used to be good about doing chargebacks generally, but they once sided with the merchant during covid when I was sold an impossible itinerary and cost me $2k. Since then I realized that I won’t always be able to do a chargeback, and I am much more cautious with vendors.

I think there are exceptions about "exigent circumstances" and COVID was considered one. My EU flight was not refunded as well despite the EU having strong protections. The airlines, at the time, were given a life-line. I think these once in-a-decade or more events can be swallowed. But wouldn't be happy with a regular occurrence.

GP said impossible itinerary though, not that it was unexpectedly canceled due to the pandemic.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#205

Post by majormajor »

egypturnash wrote: post #160
lxgr wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their "NoiseAware" main product line also sounds incredibly dystopian. Apparently, that's a "privacy-safe" microphone listening in rental properties, to "detect crowds gathering"...!? This type of creepy stuff, together with Airbnb's horrible business practices (last time they wanted access to my checking account transaction history via Plaid!) and enabling scammy hosts, is why I'm back to just staying at regular hot…

AirBnB partiers are a real problem, I live in a tourist destination and regularly hear horror stories about a residential neighborhood suddenly having crowds descend on a house that's become a party rental. There's nobody to notice it getting out of hand and tell them to chill before the neighbors call the cops because the owner is a holding company on the other side of the country. Of course Airbnbs are also a real…

Feels like a fun opportunity for a jurisdiction to legislate and pursue eminent domain seizures of "party homes" with absentee landlords.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#206

Post by microtherion »

mrb wrote: post #193
spondylosaurus wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I scoured their website to look for any clues about how it might (allegedly) work and got a fat lot of nothing. > Rest constantly monitors room air quality, using a proprietary algorithm to pinpoint any tobacco, marijuana, or nicotine presence. So a smoke detector with an "algorithm" attached. Uh huh. How does that algorithm work? > By analyzing various factors and patterns[...] Some cutting edge shit here! And as fo…

Given that this image: https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/653a9fbd1075088b6c8f8bd3/... shows PM2.5 and CO2(ppm) it may imply they monitor particles and CO2 levels. My guess is it also monitors humidity, and temperature. Humidity helps distinguish smoke from water vapor (eg. steaming shower). CO2 sensors are generally pretty accurate, but PM2.5 sensors are notoriously prone to false spikes usually caused by dust in or…

That's awesome for the hotel! The less they dust their rooms, the more "smoking fees" they can charge guests.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#207

Post by dawnerd »

serf wrote: post #76
dawnerd wrote: post #19

I bet Rest just uses a cheap voc sensor and triggers when a set threshold is hit. I doubt there's any algorithm involved.

if you think a 'cheap sensor' is doing much of anything without the involvement of an algorithm somewhere then might I suggest you try to use (any) cheap sensor. algorithms are one of the only things that make cheap equipment usable. That cheap voc sensor is going to be a noisy mess on the line.

I do use them throughout the house and I didn’t have to write a single algorithm because the libraries available handle that for you. What I was meaning was they don’t have any magic sauce. The most I can see them doing is maybe est voc greater than x for y duration.

I guess you could pedantically say see that’s an algorithm! But you know what they’re heavily implying in their marketing…

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#208

Post by RainyDayTmrw »

chii wrote: post #147
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #4

Synopsis and excerpt: [Rest] markets itself as a way to "unlock a new revenue stream" with the help of a "robust algorithm" for detecting smoking. Hotels where these sensors are installed rack up complaints and negative reviews, after Rest sensors register false positives - thereby unlocking that revenue stream for the hotels. The awesome thing about black-box algorithms is they can't be challenged when they're wrong…

> The awesome thing about black-box algorithms is they can't be challenged when they're wrong I want to call this "responsibility laundering". You get money, but wash away any responsibility, thus cleaning it.

"We didn't know our vendor would do so badly." wink wink nudge nudge

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#209

Post by hinkley »

Reminds me of cities shortening yellow lights to make money off of red light cameras.

The thing is that the cameras are supposed to make the public safer. That’s what they are meant to do. But they’re so expensive that you need a certain number of tickets to offset them (but whoever heard of public safety being a profit center instead of a loss leader?).

It’s a proven fact that short yellows lead to more accidents. So these red light cameras make everyone less safe. Public endangerment to try to balance a budget.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#210

Post by gpm »

FireBeyond wrote: post #150
gpm wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A person outputs about 1kg of CO2 per day, which is less than 1 gram per minute. A cigarette weighs roughly a gram, which means it probably emits roughly 3 grams of CO2... or less... (The O2 comes from the environment, and weighs 32 to carbons 12, but the cigarette isn't actually pure carbon). I don't know... that's maybe detectable? You'd need a pretty sensitive CO2 sensor and to be tying it to other signs to avoid…

> A person outputs about 1kg of CO2 per day, which is less than 1 gram per minute. I'm skeptical about this. Normal adult tidal volume is about 500mg, with a normal respiratory rate of 12/min, so 6L/min. Normal air is about 0.05% CO2, so you're at 3 grams/minute atmospherically that is inspired and expired. We actually output closer to 4% CO2. 240ml/minute. With the windows and doors closed in my 10x20 living space a…

For what it's worth here's a NASA document using the same 1kg/day number: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20090029352/downloads/20...

I don't know where I originally got that value from, it's one that has stuck in my head for years.

Post reply on HN