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Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

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Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#241

Post by agent327 »

Since we are talking about hotel-related scams, I might as well mention getaroom.com and hotelreservations.com. These scum duplicate entire hotel websites (including logos and everything), and will claim to reserve a room, but when you click on the "go to confirmation page" link, they will quickly up-charge you by hundreds or even thousands of dollars - and they will charge that before you have a chance to confirm. And while some people apparently managed to get a reservation this way, there are also reports of people ending up without any reservation. In other words, they are a full-on scum. Check trustpilot if you don't believe me.

So to summarize:

- Massive unexpected up-charge. - Credit card gets charged before you even click the final confirmation button. - Doubtful if you even get a reservation.

Stay away from these sites, and others like them, at all cost.

In case you wonder how my adventure ended: they added $800 to a $1600 reservation. I complained, and was eventually told that they would refund me, _if_ I did not do a charge-back on my credit card. A few days later they, amazingly, kept their word, so I didn't lose any money.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#242

Post by CamperBob2 »

jasonjayr wrote: post #166
dreamcompiler wrote: post #103

Remember when hotels charged outrageous fees to make a phone call from your room? That scam no longer works because everybody has a cell phone. Then they tried charging high fees for watching movies on the room's TV, and high fees for wifi. Those no longer work because everybody expects hotel wifi to be free and unlimited LTE is a thing now and nobody uses the TV in a hotel room any more. Obviously this is just the l…

“A computer can never be held accountable, therefore a computer must never make a management decision.”

I've never understood this old saw. The computer is just a tool. Somebody owns the computer, somebody installed it, somebody loaded software onto it. That's who should be held accountable.

Taken at face value, you couldn't even use a pocket calculator to back up a management decision.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#243

Post by staplers »

wwweston wrote: post #169
chii wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The awesome thing about black-box algorithms is they can't be challenged when they're wrong I want to call this "responsibility laundering". You get money, but wash away any responsibility, thus cleaning it.

The more stuff is managed by algorithms, the more it’ll become important that there is a legal right to challenge them and even hold those who adopt or implement them some kind of accountable.

  the more it’ll become important that there is a legal right to challenge them
Unfortunately, I don't see a political climate capable of this for another century or longer..

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#244

Post by nordsieck »

lxgr wrote: post #215
yubiox wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you want to get banned from ever staying in a hotel again

Hopefully hotels don't yet have an industry-wide "do not host" list without any appeal process...?

> Hopefully hotels don't yet have an industry-wide "do not host" list without any appeal process...?

There are lots of small operators, so I doubt that there's some industry wide list.

But there are only a few large operators. I'd be shocked if some of them didn't share info.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#245

Post by altairprime »

lxgr wrote: post #227
refulgentis wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Live for? Or fantasize about? :) It's a fun fantasy, but the fact we're happy to see it highlights our impotency - even a line worker sympathetic to the power imbalance would be left at "Anyways, we'll charge the fee to your card on file"

I wonder if there's a business model for a "robo-lawyer" paired with a travel agency here: "Stay at one of these hotels using this credit card issued by us, sign this contract promising that you won't smoke there, and if the hotel tries anything funny, we'll reward you with the room rate back and a bonus" :)

The company that issues cards to be provided to phone phishers understands this perfectly :)

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#246

Post by staplers »

762236 wrote: post #232
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #4

Synopsis and excerpt: [Rest] markets itself as a way to "unlock a new revenue stream" with the help of a "robust algorithm" for detecting smoking. Hotels where these sensors are installed rack up complaints and negative reviews, after Rest sensors register false positives - thereby unlocking that revenue stream for the hotels. The awesome thing about black-box algorithms is they can't be challenged when they're wrong…

Is there a way to deactivate the sensor if you find one in your room?

That could open a whole world of legal punishment for you far surpassing a small fee on your bill. Fire safety laws and such.

Not that I think this is a good thing but the framework is there to make your life hell if you were caught doing this.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#247

Post by dreamcompiler »

grishka wrote: post #216
hansvm wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big problem is the power imbalance. There's a reason they start your stay by putting a hold on a credit card. And even if you could charge them, they can afford a legal battle better than you.

Do hotels in the US not allow you to pay with cash any more? What if you don't have an internationally accepted card?

30 years ago it was possible to check into a good US hotel with cash under an assumed name. That is pretty much impossible now; they want to see your ID and a credit card.

It might still be possible to pay cash in fleabag hotels; I don't know.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#248

Post by bgilly »

lxgr wrote: post #132

There has got to be a way to penalize companies for attempting this kind of thing. Even just removing the charge without discussion isn't enough, as some people will be traveling on a corporate card they don't necessarily monitor closely, will confuse the charge for something else etc. Otherwise, I'd love to be able to preemptively and without any prior communication charge (way in excess of the room rate, of course!…

There is a way. Don’t give them any of your money.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#249

Post by crmd »

In a healthy marketplace, customers stop using merchants that abuse customers, until they change their practices or go out of business and are replaced by more customer-responsive competitors.

Here in the US, however, 5 hotel brands have been allowed to control over 70% of hotel rooms nationwide. This means a dispute with even one will cause big problems for business travelers.

Same thing with Ticketmaster/Live Nation, Google, Amazon, etc.

This extreme consolidation of market power seems to me like a degenerate form of capitalism that breaks my libertarian idealism.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#250

Post by kayodelycaon »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #126
4b11b4 wrote: post #17

This reminds me of Hertz new "AI" camera based damage detection... Although much less effort... This is the end. May progress have mercy on our souls.

I think both of these "innovations" will be short lived once companies recognize that reputation is still a thing, and once you build a reputation of scamming your customers, it's very hard to recover from it and the revenue from the scams isn't enough to make up for the revenue lost because nobody wants to deal with your company anymore.

People still use Hertz despite them reporting cars as stolen and having their customers arrested.
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