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Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

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Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#161

Post by DudeOpotomus »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #135
DudeOpotomus wrote: post #100

If I got one of these I'd pay it and never, ever, ever stay at any hotel owned by the entity again. Being that I spend $25k-50k a year on hotels, their loss is a small hotel's gain. In fact, whoever does this will lose my business ahead of time as I will never stay at any hotel that uses this service. A few minutes on Tripadvisor and you'll know. Such incredible business myopia. Hotels are one of the few businesses t…

It’s tricky because the chains (like “Hyatt”) don’t actually own any hotels. They are generally owned by local ownership groups and it can be hard to figure out the real owner. That’s also why one Hyatt could be 5/5 and another 1/5. The chains don’t do a great job of quality control.

This isnt exactly true. They do not own the property but their contracts give them full ownership over policies and processes of the location. It's an essential part of their brand by the way, to assure continuity.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#162

Post by lxgr »

hansvm wrote: post #148
lxgr wrote: post #132

There has got to be a way to penalize companies for attempting this kind of thing. Even just removing the charge without discussion isn't enough, as some people will be traveling on a corporate card they don't necessarily monitor closely, will confuse the charge for something else etc. Otherwise, I'd love to be able to preemptively and without any prior communication charge (way in excess of the room rate, of course!…

The big problem is the power imbalance. There's a reason they start your stay by putting a hold on a credit card. And even if you could charge them, they can afford a legal battle better than you.

Oh, that's a common misunderstanding, but they can't sue me in court – by accepting me as a customer, they accepted my binding arbitration agreement! It clearly said so on my luggage tag their authorized agent (i.e. the bellboy) handled as part of check-in.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#163

Post by DudeOpotomus »

photonthug wrote: post #149
DudeOpotomus wrote: post #100

If I got one of these I'd pay it and never, ever, ever stay at any hotel owned by the entity again. Being that I spend $25k-50k a year on hotels, their loss is a small hotel's gain. In fact, whoever does this will lose my business ahead of time as I will never stay at any hotel that uses this service. A few minutes on Tripadvisor and you'll know. Such incredible business myopia. Hotels are one of the few businesses t…

> Without brand loyalty, hotels suffer. Executive decision makers won't though. It's clear that consolidation in many sectors has gotten to the point that consumer power is an absolute joke and "ignore them, abuse them, and just defraud them" is a standard business model. Even if there's litigation.. this crap just overwhelms services so that basically the public pays twice. Witness the situation where various attorn…

This is what actually kills brands. The funny thing is our collective memory is short, so a brand killed by poor product and bad decisions is often revitalized by PE a few years later, because of brand recognition.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#164

Post by washadjeffmad »

blantonl wrote: post #104

Between this and Hertz's new AI damage detection models, we're seeing the enshitification of business travel reaching a new level, and also doing a great job of really ticking off a group of customers (business travelers) who are already irritated enough. Rest markets itself as a way to "unlock a new revenue stream" Leave it to the bean counters to see this as an opportunity to generate new revenue streams from custo…

There have always been attempts to launder fraud through intermediaries - computerized, bureaucratic, or otherwise. They think (well, know) if they abstract or obfuscate things in a novel way, that they'll have enough time to hit markets across states without sophisticated legislation before the legal immune systems can respond, potentially years later.

This type of algorithmic grift is transparent to judges and people with common sense, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest at or outside of the federal level through regulators like the FTC to prevent it, just curtail certain circumstances.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#165

Post by heisenbit »

tialaramex wrote: post #93
jdenning wrote: post #18

This seems like outright fraud - how can they charge a cleaning fee and then perform no cleaning?

Leases often work this way. In theory it's illegal in the UK (for a home, businesses are assumed to be big boys who can negotiate on equal footing) but it's still pretty common to be charged when you move out. Specifically UK law says "reasonable wear and tear" is just an expected cost of people living in a house you let to them - so e.g. they're going to wear out carpet after some years, but a cigar burn is not OK,…

Lost my deposit in the U.K. way back so it is not a new phenomenon. Landlords were lawyers so I figured it is not worth fighting especially from abroad.

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#166

Post by jasonjayr »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #103

Remember when hotels charged outrageous fees to make a phone call from your room? That scam no longer works because everybody has a cell phone. Then they tried charging high fees for watching movies on the room's TV, and high fees for wifi. Those no longer work because everybody expects hotel wifi to be free and unlimited LTE is a thing now and nobody uses the TV in a hotel room any more. Obviously this is just the l…

“A computer can never be held accountable, therefore a computer must never make a management decision.”

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#167

Post by didntcheck »

lxgr wrote: post #137
kotaKat wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check the App Store screenshots - https://apps.apple.com/us/app/rest-by-noiseaware/id644925142... The app even tracks the whole fee amount in-app being collected. "Net charge", "adjusted charge amount" reasons of "guest complaint"...

Their "NoiseAware" main product line also sounds incredibly dystopian. Apparently, that's a "privacy-safe" microphone listening in rental properties, to "detect crowds gathering"...!? This type of creepy stuff, together with Airbnb's horrible business practices (last time they wanted access to my checking account transaction history via Plaid!) and enabling scammy hosts, is why I'm back to just staying at regular hot…

I suppose in theory you could have a device which doesn't have the storage or bandwidth to record/transmit full audio, but does some heuristics on the device and then transmits a small payload of flags. But in any case I wouldn't want to stay anywhere with an unaccountable black box ready to unfalsifiably charge me

The other commenter is absolutely right that partyers in AirBnBs cause nuisances for local residents, but the owners will have to find another way to sort that out or close up shop

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#168

Post by [deleted] »

NewJazz wrote: post #128
DudeOpotomus wrote: post #100

If I got one of these I'd pay it and never, ever, ever stay at any hotel owned by the entity again. Being that I spend $25k-50k a year on hotels, their loss is a small hotel's gain. In fact, whoever does this will lose my business ahead of time as I will never stay at any hotel that uses this service. A few minutes on Tripadvisor and you'll know. Such incredible business myopia. Hotels are one of the few businesses t…

The hotel chain probably had no input into the decision to add this. Hyatt is just a franchise for many hotels. Call up /email the chain's corporate folks and tell them about the charge and that you'll not stay in their chain of hotels unless they can guarantee the devices are banned from the franchise. If you really spend that much on hotels every year your demand would at least raise some eyebrows.

[deleted]

Re: Hyatt Hotels are using algorithmic Rest “smoking detectors”

#169

Post by wwweston »

chii wrote: post #147
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #4

Synopsis and excerpt: [Rest] markets itself as a way to "unlock a new revenue stream" with the help of a "robust algorithm" for detecting smoking. Hotels where these sensors are installed rack up complaints and negative reviews, after Rest sensors register false positives - thereby unlocking that revenue stream for the hotels. The awesome thing about black-box algorithms is they can't be challenged when they're wrong…

> The awesome thing about black-box algorithms is they can't be challenged when they're wrong I want to call this "responsibility laundering". You get money, but wash away any responsibility, thus cleaning it.

The more stuff is managed by algorithms, the more it’ll become important that there is a legal right to challenge them and even hold those who adopt or implement them some kind of accountable.
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