37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady • Hacker News Board

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#191

Post by yummyfajitas » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 11:17 AM UTC

hackinthebochs wrote: post #148

yummyfajitas wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The free market generally does not have the power to correct for overreaching management. Can you explain this claim? Specifically, why "overreaching management" is bad for consumers, and why the market can't correct for it?

I don't personally believe that overreaching management is necessarily bad for consumers. I was just trying to preempt what seemed to be a logical reply given philwelch's previous comments. As to why the market won't necessarily correct for it, is because many times overreaching management is effective (at least in the short term). Degrade working conditions to cut costs and the consumer benefits. The information abo…

Most likely the information doesn't reach the consumer because the typical consumer doesn't care.

There are often niche producers who target the small fraction of consumers who care, and market their wares in part based on this. For example, see Fair Trade coffee producers (appealing to do-gooders) or American Apparel (appealing to US nationalists).

Your claim that markets can't transmit this information to interested consumers seems incorrect.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#192

Post by richardw » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 11:32 AM UTC

djt wrote: post #171

pg wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who proposes that the discussion should focus on profitability rather than funding rounds is presumably not proposing that we simply talk about it as one bit of information: profitable or not. That would make pretty short articles. It also wouldn't be very interesting; there are hundreds of plumbers and barbers and cafes within a few miles of me who are profitable. And plenty of these plumbers and barbers and…

lay off Paul, he's not making an arguement here that one is better than the other, he's arguing that the press wants stories that pull readership. Writing that Instagram sold for $1B is more interesting than someone that makes a few million in profit a year and has 4 day work weeks. I myself side with the 37 signals guys that profit is king, but that takes nothing away from my friends that are in start ups chasing bi…

> i think it's terrible that this community doesnt allow both to co-exist as viable options

I think it does. There are many of us that are focused on either lifestyle or profit-driven businesses and those articles are often received well. What isn't are articles attacking the funded companies' approach.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#193

Post by tMcGrath » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 11:39 AM UTC

pg wrote: post #152

dlss wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unusually straw-mannish of you pg. From the article: "What matters is: Are you profitable? Are you building something great? Are you taking care of your people? Are you treating your customers well?" All of those questions can be answered without needing access to a companies ledger. Jason answers those questions himself in the article. I think his point was that stories about those questions don't get as muc…

Anyone who proposes that the discussion should focus on profitability rather than funding rounds is presumably not proposing that we simply talk about it as one bit of information: profitable or not. That would make pretty short articles. It also wouldn't be very interesting; there are hundreds of plumbers and barbers and cafes within a few miles of me who are profitable. And plenty of these plumbers and barbers and…

I'm afraid I have to disagree here. As someone who runs a small business which, for not-immediately-relevant reasons isn't in a position to try for startup-style explosive growth, I'd be really interested in hearing about how people in similar situations run their business. Regarding your examples of plumbers, barbers and cafes, we all think we know exactly how to run these, and in our heads probably think it's a pretty simple thing. What if we're wrong and there's something to learn?

I believe that businesses in this space are run with old-fashioned tools (management methods, process optimisation techniques, technology) for reasons of tradition and lack of information sharing rather than anything inherent to the businesses themselves. My experiences with business growth accelerators leads me to believe we as a community re-invent the wheel an enormous amount, and anything that helps me reduce that is of interest.

Sure, we have a different metric for success, but that doesn't mean there aren't unusually successful small businesses (that will remain comparatively small) that might have something interesting to say.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#194

Post by sleepyhead » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 11:59 AM UTC

nameuserc wrote: post #187

jschulenklopper wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does the 37Signals software do? I guess you've not looked at http://37signals.com before posting this? > So I have to install Ruby, Rails and a gazilion of their custom scripts to use their "product"? No. You need a browser though, because it is web-based.

Forget what I say. It's just me. "5,000 companies sign up every week." But "keep all project discussions, emails, and stuff in one place" just doesn't draw me in. I don't have a problem with "keeping all project stuff in one place". 37Signals appears to be aimed at solving a "problem" I do not have. I have looked at their website several times. It just never grabs me. And I'm not inclined to give them my email addres…

So they sell something you don't need. Why do you have a problem with that?

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#195

Post by tptacek » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 12:38 PM UTC

larrys wrote: post #143

pg wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason the press writes about funding rather than revenues is not some kind of conspiracy to focus on the wrong things, but simply because reporters know about funding rounds and not about revenues. It's clear that the press would write about revenues if they could, because they write a lot about the revenues of public companies. They're able to do that because public companies have to disclose their revenues. Pr…

" So if Jason really believes this is a terrible problem and wants to set things on the right course" Well you know that's not going to happen especially since he made this statement below: "We have 35 employees at 37signals. We could have hundreds of employees if we wanted to--our revenues and profits support that--but I think we’d be worse off." So he isn't simply saying that he feels he could expand his business a…

First, 37signals has a large (for our field) in-house customer support team, so the mean fully loaded head count cost of a 37s employee is lower than the number you're thinking.

Second, I think you are underestimating just how profitable 37signals probably is. They have scaled a few tight products with high recurring revenue to a very large number of customers with a tiny team. I've worked at companies with hundreds of employees and knew their revenue numbers and the model 37signals is executing puts those numbers well within reach.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#196

Post by hackinthebochs » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 12:42 PM UTC

anamax wrote: post #164

hackinthebochs wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are simply a balancing force to that of the management whose sole purpose is to extract as much profit from the enterprise. Yes, a lot of bad things can happen when unions gain too much power. But that doesn't mean unions are necessarily evil. On the contrary, they are a necessary evil, as a balancing force of the evil of the profit incentive. The free market generally does not have the power to correct for ov…

> Unions are simply a balancing force to that of the management whose sole purpose is to extract as much profit from the enterprise. You say "profit" like it's a bad thing. It's not, it's what funds new good things. And, reducing costs is a good thing. It produces "more". BTW - Management's goal is to extract as much profit for managers, not for the enterprise. One big problem with the corporate model is that no one…

Profit is "evil" here because it creates incentives for all sorts of bad things. This is what necessitates a balancing force.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#197

Post by danmaz74 » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 1:15 PM UTC

dlss wrote: post #185

pg wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand quite well the idea of company that isn't focused simply on revenue growth. I've been running one for the past 7 years. And I'm interested in reading about others. But articles of that type are case studies, not news, which is why I explicitly distinguished between them.

first "What makes a company newsworthy (unless it's as a case study) is its size, or potential size." then "But articles of that type are case studies, not news" first "Do you really want to read articles about all of them? I don't." then "I've been running one for the past 7 years. And I'm interested in reading about others." I think what you want is for Jason to have said "I wish the technical community were focuse…

News is, by definition, about current events. Case studies are about past events. So, in general, they can't be the same thing (even if, of course, the publication of an interesting case study can be interesting - and current - news).

"Why can't there be news stories about how awesome the customer experience at X has gotten?": If you really want to know, I advise you to read "Storytelling: Branding in practice".

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#198

Post by jeremyjh » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 3:25 PM UTC

sabat wrote: post #59

timjahn wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"merely a successful small business." Really? That small business is financially more successful than most crazy ass VC backed startups with the latest photo sharing solution will ever be.

That small business is financially more successful Sure. But they're not trying to build the same thing. I think it's mainly a midwestern attitude vs. Californian. Fried just wanted to build a business. Startup founders want to build companies.

Startup founders want to sell companies.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#199

Post by randomdata » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 3:27 PM UTC

nameuserc wrote: post #187

jschulenklopper wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does the 37Signals software do? I guess you've not looked at http://37signals.com before posting this? > So I have to install Ruby, Rails and a gazilion of their custom scripts to use their "product"? No. You need a browser though, because it is web-based.

Forget what I say. It's just me. "5,000 companies sign up every week." But "keep all project discussions, emails, and stuff in one place" just doesn't draw me in. I don't have a problem with "keeping all project stuff in one place". 37Signals appears to be aimed at solving a "problem" I do not have. I have looked at their website several times. It just never grabs me. And I'm not inclined to give them my email addres…

I participate in a few Basecamp projects operated by clients and from my point of view, it just forum software (like phpBB, IPB, etc.) with, arguably, a better interface.

I personally don't think it is that great, with many pain points that I encounter - which, I will concede, may be a case of using the wrong tool for the job over any shortcomings in the product itself - but it is better over having no group messaging system at all if you are working with multiple people at a distance.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#200

Post by larrys » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 3:43 PM UTC

davidw wrote: post #173

larrys wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There's something a bit... I don't know quite how to put it." Let me help you. But first I have to get my shovel. Because that's the typical shit that is heaved by the "haves" on the "have not's" try and make them seem humble and not anything special. Take Oprah. She just loves to talk about how this and that are so expensive as if she's just an ordinary person like the rest of us. He laid it on a little to thick wi…

Calling people names is not really ok with the spirit or guidelines of Hacker News: if that's not something you'd say to DHH (who often pops in to comment here) in person, you shouldn't be writing it.

Ok, I agree with that because I haven't had any personal interactions with DHH and only know from what I have read about him or in his comments. So it was inappropriate. But I still feel the point I am making is valid as far as Jason's thoughts juxtaposed against DHH's apparent behavior. The truth is DHH appears to be a prima donna.

It is interesting how DHH thought seems to get a pass on his behavior on HN in a "boys will be boys" kind of way because what he has accomplished.