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37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

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Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#131

Post by mvzink »

pg wrote: post #130
whalesalad wrote: post #18

"I won’t name names. I used to name names. But I think all you have to do is read TechCrunch. Look at what the top stories are, and they’re all about raising money, how many employees they have, and these are metrics that don’t matter. What matters is: Are you profitable? Are you building something great? Are you taking care of your people? Are you treating your customers well? In the coverage of our industry as a wh…

The reason the press writes about funding rather than revenues is not some kind of conspiracy to focus on the wrong things, but simply because reporters know about funding rounds and not about revenues. It's clear that the press would write about revenues if they could, because they write a lot about the revenues of public companies. They're able to do that because public companies have to disclose their revenues. Pr…

On the other hand, a "sickness in our industry" doesn't have to be the majority behavior. It may seem more common than it actually is since it's easier for the press to talk about the businesses that just care about quick exits, but there are still companies behaving that way.

Jason's problem doesn't seem to be with the reporting; it's only coincidental that it's easier for press to report on the businesses he finds fault with.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#132

Post by neilkelty »

Lukeas14 wrote: post #116
briandear wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't need a contract if you're adding value to the organization. If you can get replaced by someone cheaper, then you weren't worth what you were getting. Why the heck should a business pay more for the same outputs? If you're adding more value than you cost, your job is always safe. The union mentality is exactly the reason American manufacturing has left for cheaper pastures. Union employees aren't about a…

Comparing Google to auto manufacturers that employ mostly union labor is not fair because the supply and demand curve for employees is completely different. When a potential employee goes into an interview at Google he/she knows that they are in short supply and high demand. This gives him/her leverage to negotiate salary, work conditions, etc. Google provides such a great work environment because they know this and…

Doesn't the supply and demand curve set the market equilibrium for the wage/contract,etc? Don't like the job...go find another one.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#133

Post by elviejo »

philwelch wrote: post #117
hackinthebochs wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are simply a balancing force to that of the management whose sole purpose is to extract as much profit from the enterprise. Yes, a lot of bad things can happen when unions gain too much power. But that doesn't mean unions are necessarily evil. On the contrary, they are a necessary evil, as a balancing force of the evil of the profit incentive. The free market generally does not have the power to correct for ov…

> Society is stronger, and the economy is stronger, when the "wealth" of a nation is well distributed among everyone. Wealth here being everything from health, leisure time, assurances against bodily injury, etc. Unions are but one tool to ensure this equitable distribution. I'll agree with that, but I think regulation and Big Government™ are a better solution and unions have outlived their usefulness. You can tell b…

Freelancers union is a new phenomena... And the fact that it is formed by independent workers.. tells you about the need for this associations.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#134

Post by 18pfsmt »

jmathai wrote: post #108
lelandbatey wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree. I read your parent comment, and I just realized what bothers me about "startups", and how they operate. I guess I had naively been assuming that a "startup" was effectively a phase in business, where you are working hard to build a product early in the businesses life. You are "starting up." However, I assumed that the end goal is to make sure that product grows and supports a viable business that en…

I've been thinking about this for a while. The biggest problem in Silicon Valley is that people don't think about what they're building. There are so many stories of founders receiving millions in funding and startups being acquired for tens or hundreds of millions of dollars that it creates a really unique subculture. That subculture is what Jason Fried is referring to. I don't have a problem with it per se but I do…

I hate to be pedantic, and I don't want to take this thread off topic, but IPO is a noun, not a verb. It stands for initial public offering, and I'd prefer if people claiming to be in the know could use it properly. Please don't misuse simple terminology, as it promotes misuse by the younger people who would like to create companies.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#135

Post by 18pfsmt »

saraid216 wrote: post #123
Acne_Researcher wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be nice, Michael. 37signals once built software I loved. Salesforce builds software I loath. 37signals could have been great -- a Salesforce with wonderful software -- but the CEO is happier to pat himself on the back and brag about laziness. That's my logic. Do you feel that I am incorrect?

> Do you feel that I am incorrect? Yup. That's exactly how I feel. I don't know why you're bragging about your incorrectness all over the internet, though.

I can't tell for sure, but it seems like you all know each other outside of HN, and perhaps have a relationship that is unknown to the rest of us. I think it is better for you to keep these things to yourselves, and not involve this community.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#136

Post by zhoutong »

pg wrote: post #130
whalesalad wrote: post #18

"I won’t name names. I used to name names. But I think all you have to do is read TechCrunch. Look at what the top stories are, and they’re all about raising money, how many employees they have, and these are metrics that don’t matter. What matters is: Are you profitable? Are you building something great? Are you taking care of your people? Are you treating your customers well? In the coverage of our industry as a wh…

The reason the press writes about funding rather than revenues is not some kind of conspiracy to focus on the wrong things, but simply because reporters know about funding rounds and not about revenues. It's clear that the press would write about revenues if they could, because they write a lot about the revenues of public companies. They're able to do that because public companies have to disclose their revenues. Pr…

The press loves to talk about changes, because news only comes out when something changes. The timeless pieces only exist in opinions section.

In startup's context, fund raising is definitely a change, and revenue numbers may be a change (when they are surprising or previously undisclosed). But building a sustainable business, treating customers well or even being profitable should be long-lasting and timeless. It's interesting to keep reading about these issues in Hacker News, but these are not exactly news.

It's like business fundamentals ("common sense"). The press never talks about them but it doesn't mean the industry doesn't care or doesn't treat them as important.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#137

Post by Retric »

neilkelty wrote: post #132
Lukeas14 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing Google to auto manufacturers that employ mostly union labor is not fair because the supply and demand curve for employees is completely different. When a potential employee goes into an interview at Google he/she knows that they are in short supply and high demand. This gives him/her leverage to negotiate salary, work conditions, etc. Google provides such a great work environment because they know this and…

Doesn't the supply and demand curve set the market equilibrium for the wage/contract,etc? Don't like the job...go find another one.

Wages are just part of the supply / demand curve. At the high end it's worth a lot of managment overhead to keep people happy, at the low end there is little incentive to do so.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#138

Post by dlss »

pg wrote: post #130
whalesalad wrote: post #18

"I won’t name names. I used to name names. But I think all you have to do is read TechCrunch. Look at what the top stories are, and they’re all about raising money, how many employees they have, and these are metrics that don’t matter. What matters is: Are you profitable? Are you building something great? Are you taking care of your people? Are you treating your customers well? In the coverage of our industry as a wh…

The reason the press writes about funding rather than revenues is not some kind of conspiracy to focus on the wrong things, but simply because reporters know about funding rounds and not about revenues. It's clear that the press would write about revenues if they could, because they write a lot about the revenues of public companies. They're able to do that because public companies have to disclose their revenues. Pr…

This is unusually straw-mannish of you pg.

From the article: "What matters is: Are you profitable? Are you building something great? Are you taking care of your people? Are you treating your customers well?"

All of those questions can be answered without needing access to a companies ledger. Jason answers those questions himself in the article.

I think his point was that stories about those questions don't get as much readership per unit of reporter effort, hence they aren't being written.

Posting 37signals' revenue numbers would have zero impact on that.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#139

Post by loceng »

pg wrote: post #130
whalesalad wrote: post #18

"I won’t name names. I used to name names. But I think all you have to do is read TechCrunch. Look at what the top stories are, and they’re all about raising money, how many employees they have, and these are metrics that don’t matter. What matters is: Are you profitable? Are you building something great? Are you taking care of your people? Are you treating your customers well? In the coverage of our industry as a wh…

The reason the press writes about funding rather than revenues is not some kind of conspiracy to focus on the wrong things, but simply because reporters know about funding rounds and not about revenues. It's clear that the press would write about revenues if they could, because they write a lot about the revenues of public companies. They're able to do that because public companies have to disclose their revenues. Pr…

I would think that creating articles, or blog posts, talking about situations of how they specifically treat customers well, how and why they are building something great, how they take care of their people, etc.. would solve this more than posting revenues. Though that might come across too strongly as stroking your own ego.. Obviously being profitable allows you more benefits to how you treat people, the time you give or allow.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#140

Post by quesera »

18pfsmt wrote: post #134
jmathai wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thinking about this for a while. The biggest problem in Silicon Valley is that people don't think about what they're building. There are so many stories of founders receiving millions in funding and startups being acquired for tens or hundreds of millions of dollars that it creates a really unique subculture. That subculture is what Jason Fried is referring to. I don't have a problem with it per se but I do…

I hate to be pedantic, and I don't want to take this thread off topic, but IPO is a noun, not a verb. It stands for initial public offering, and I'd prefer if people claiming to be in the know could use it properly. Please don't misuse simple terminology, as it promotes misuse by the younger people who would like to create companies.

IPO has been verbed for at least 15 years in Silicon Valley. Probably longer.

Your statement is both pedantic and incorrect.

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