37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady • Hacker News Board

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#181

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 8:15 AM UTC

anamax wrote: post #162

hackinthebochs wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't personally believe that overreaching management is necessarily bad for consumers. I was just trying to preempt what seemed to be a logical reply given philwelch's previous comments. As to why the market won't necessarily correct for it, is because many times overreaching management is effective (at least in the short term). Degrade working conditions to cut costs and the consumer benefits. The information abo…

> That signal simply doesn't reach all interested parties, Sure it does. I, the customer, see both the price and the service. If I'm willing to pay more for more service, I can do so. And, this signal also reaches the employees as well. If you don't like it, go elsewhere. If you're right about how valuable your service is, customers will make the same choice. If you're wrong....

[deleted]

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#182

Post by hackinthebochs » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 8:17 AM UTC

anamax wrote: post #162

hackinthebochs wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't personally believe that overreaching management is necessarily bad for consumers. I was just trying to preempt what seemed to be a logical reply given philwelch's previous comments. As to why the market won't necessarily correct for it, is because many times overreaching management is effective (at least in the short term). Degrade working conditions to cut costs and the consumer benefits. The information abo…

> That signal simply doesn't reach all interested parties, Sure it does. I, the customer, see both the price and the service. If I'm willing to pay more for more service, I can do so. And, this signal also reaches the employees as well. If you don't like it, go elsewhere. If you're right about how valuable your service is, customers will make the same choice. If you're wrong....

What about products that have no aspect of customer service, say canned tuna? The point is that there are classes of products with no meaningful level of customer service to the final consumer. Or, any consideration of service is trumped by lower cost. In both of these cases the market will not correct for overbearing management.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#183

Post by hackinthebochs » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 8:23 AM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #117

hackinthebochs wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are simply a balancing force to that of the management whose sole purpose is to extract as much profit from the enterprise. Yes, a lot of bad things can happen when unions gain too much power. But that doesn't mean unions are necessarily evil. On the contrary, they are a necessary evil, as a balancing force of the evil of the profit incentive. The free market generally does not have the power to correct for ov…

> Society is stronger, and the economy is stronger, when the "wealth" of a nation is well distributed among everyone. Wealth here being everything from health, leisure time, assurances against bodily injury, etc. Unions are but one tool to ensure this equitable distribution. I'll agree with that, but I think regulation and Big Government™ are a better solution and unions have outlived their usefulness. You can tell b…

I can agree with your point. Government perhaps is smarter and better equipped to deal with these types of issues than it was in the past when unions were necessary. The follow up question to this is: how did Government become smarter about labor issues? Was it unions that brought these issues to mainstream attention? If we do away unions, who could adequately fill this role? Unions are special because they have direct access to information that is generally lost to anyone outside of the company's walls. Any entity that filled the role of watchdog would need access to this information.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#184

Post by 18pfsmt » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 8:29 AM UTC

quesera wrote: post #140

18pfsmt wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to be pedantic, and I don't want to take this thread off topic, but IPO is a noun, not a verb. It stands for initial public offering, and I'd prefer if people claiming to be in the know could use it properly. Please don't misuse simple terminology, as it promotes misuse by the younger people who would like to create companies.

IPO has been verbed for at least 15 years in Silicon Valley. Probably longer. Your statement is both pedantic and incorrect.

I simply disagree that because some people decided to misuse a term, it is now appropriate. I think the use of IPO as a verb was done to sound sophisticated (and legitimate) and exciting, without understanding what SOX compliance involves. It seems to me that the only reason one would say "IPO" as a verb rather than "go public" would be to demonstrate some familiarity with jargon and gain some credibility among amateurs.

I may be a bit off, or poor in my ability to communicate my point, but it it seems you are appealing to authority in your argument for the use of IPO as a verb.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#185

Post by dlss » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 8:46 AM UTC

pg wrote: post #178

dlss wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you might not be familiar with the author Jason referred to right before his critique of the current focus on size: Ricardo Semler. In his books he develops a very humanistic look at the role of businesses in our lives. As entrepreneurs, employees, and as customers. I won't be able to do the ideas justice here, but I will try: A business obsessed with revenue and growth is like a person obsessed with h…

I understand quite well the idea of company that isn't focused simply on revenue growth. I've been running one for the past 7 years. And I'm interested in reading about others. But articles of that type are case studies, not news, which is why I explicitly distinguished between them.

first "What makes a company newsworthy (unless it's as a case study) is its size, or potential size."

then "But articles of that type are case studies, not news"

first "Do you really want to read articles about all of them? I don't."

then "I've been running one for the past 7 years. And I'm interested in reading about others."

I think what you want is for Jason to have said "I wish the technical community were focused on case studies of awesome companies rather than news stories about funding and growth." Which I think he would agree with, and would remove your points.

(Not that case study vs news is a real dichotomy -- what's stopping someone from calling news about a round of funding a "case study about getting funding"? Why can't there be news stories about how awesome the customer experience at X has gotten?)

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#186

Post by _urga » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 9:42 AM UTC

pg wrote: post #152

dlss wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unusually straw-mannish of you pg. From the article: "What matters is: Are you profitable? Are you building something great? Are you taking care of your people? Are you treating your customers well?" All of those questions can be answered without needing access to a companies ledger. Jason answers those questions himself in the article. I think his point was that stories about those questions don't get as muc…

Anyone who proposes that the discussion should focus on profitability rather than funding rounds is presumably not proposing that we simply talk about it as one bit of information: profitable or not. That would make pretty short articles. It also wouldn't be very interesting; there are hundreds of plumbers and barbers and cafes within a few miles of me who are profitable. And plenty of these plumbers and barbers and…

"And plenty of these plumbers and barbers and cafes probably do great work and treat their employees well. Do you really want to read articles about all of them? I don't. What makes a company newsworthy (unless it's as a case study) is its size, or potential size."

The real world is a better movie. Real people, real work, real life make for interesting stories. I would much rather read about healthy business, regardless of size, than sizeable business, regardless of health. Jason Fried was on target.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#187

Post by nameuserc » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 10:00 AM UTC

jschulenklopper wrote: post #174

nameuserc wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fair point. Journalists are just using available public information. 37Signals' numbers are not public. "Talk is cheap" as they say. I don't disagree with what he is saying in the quotes - that people focus too much on raising money as "business success". This is without question. But then again I still do not understand the value of 37Signals (compared to any other software company with aggressive marketin…

> What does the 37Signals software do? I guess you've not looked at http://37signals.com before posting this? > So I have to install Ruby, Rails and a gazilion of their custom scripts to use their "product"? No. You need a browser though, because it is web-based.

Forget what I say. It's just me. "5,000 companies sign up every week." But "keep all project discussions, emails, and stuff in one place" just doesn't draw me in. I don't have a problem with "keeping all project stuff in one place". 37Signals appears to be aimed at solving a "problem" I do not have.

I have looked at their website several times. It just never grabs me. And I'm not inclined to give them my email address to try out their amazing "solution".

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#188

Post by nameuserc » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 10:04 AM UTC

pg wrote: post #152

dlss wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unusually straw-mannish of you pg. From the article: "What matters is: Are you profitable? Are you building something great? Are you taking care of your people? Are you treating your customers well?" All of those questions can be answered without needing access to a companies ledger. Jason answers those questions himself in the article. I think his point was that stories about those questions don't get as muc…

Anyone who proposes that the discussion should focus on profitability rather than funding rounds is presumably not proposing that we simply talk about it as one bit of information: profitable or not. That would make pretty short articles. It also wouldn't be very interesting; there are hundreds of plumbers and barbers and cafes within a few miles of me who are profitable. And plenty of these plumbers and barbers and…

But I'd bet those blue-collar folks would not mind being written about like "startups" get written about. A little hype could do them a lot of good.

What makes a company "newsworthy" is a good PR firm!

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#189

Post by gfodor » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 10:05 AM UTC

_urga wrote: post #186

pg wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who proposes that the discussion should focus on profitability rather than funding rounds is presumably not proposing that we simply talk about it as one bit of information: profitable or not. That would make pretty short articles. It also wouldn't be very interesting; there are hundreds of plumbers and barbers and cafes within a few miles of me who are profitable. And plenty of these plumbers and barbers and…

"And plenty of these plumbers and barbers and cafes probably do great work and treat their employees well. Do you really want to read articles about all of them? I don't. What makes a company newsworthy (unless it's as a case study) is its size, or potential size." The real world is a better movie. Real people, real work, real life make for interesting stories. I would much rather read about healthy business, regardl…

So I guess you spend your afternoons reading blue chip 10-k's? Didn't think so.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#190

Post by Jd » Thu, Aug 30, 2012, 10:33 AM UTC

Jd wrote: post #38

tptacek wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am having a hard time following this comment. Are you suggesting that Jason Fried doesn't run 37signals in the manner he's talking about here? If so, then on information & belief, you're wrong. If you're just saying that you think owning equity in a company not run the way he runs his own company undercuts everything he writes... ok, but what a boring objection to raise.

Simple version: If he thinks and thought the Groupon scenario is "absolutely disgusting" why did he advise, take a board position, and retain shares in an "absolutely disgusting" venture? Options presented by me: A) "absolutely disgusting" is an exaggeration B) JF is a hypocrite C) JF has changed his mind over time

A bit confused why downmodded for responding to a request for clarification with a clarification. If you don't like the original post, isn't downmodding that enough for you?