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Preliminary report into Air India crash released

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#531

Post by briandear »

raverbashing wrote: post #500
sillysaurusx wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.youtube.com/live/SE0BetkXsLg?si=LPss_su3PVTAqGCO Both of these extremely-experienced pilots say that there was near zero chance that the fuel switches were unintentionally moved. They were switched off within one second of each other, which rules out most failure scenarios. If it was an issue with the switches, we also would have seen an air worthiness directive being issued. But they didn’t, because this…

I'm not disagreeing with you I think this was manually done But here's the thing a "near zero chance" when we are talking about an actual event changes the math Maybe there's a combination of vibration and manufacturing defect or assembly fault or "hammer this until it works" that can cause the switches to flip. Very unlikely? Yes. Still close to 0% but much more likely in the scenario of an accident Of course AAIB/N…

We could also suggest that aliens in the cockpit did it — about the same probability. Two switches, on independent circuits, both failing within one second of each other in the exact same way?

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#532

Post by afro88 »

yread wrote: post #515
epolanski wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The car equivalent is being on a highway and "mistakenly" pulling the hand brakes, except that there are 2 hand brakes and you need to first unlock both of them. That's very hard to do by panic and mistake, if not impossible by design.

On pprune there is a professional pilot that says they had multiple instances of inadverent switching off fuel switches. They do it every startup, shutdown and training captains (the captain on this flight was pilot not flying, he had >10k hours) do it all the time in the sim to trigger engine out scenario during training

I pull my handbrake every time I park my car, but never mistake it for the windshield wiper while the car is moving

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#534

Post by Aeolun »

refulgentis wrote: post #508
Aeolun wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using that reasoning all airplane crashes have a lot in common too. Doesn’t mean the ones where you cannot determine the reason and have to speculate don’t suck.

Could you explain more? There's too many negatives in that last sentence for my decaffeinated early morning brain. I'm titillated by the idea there's a way to justify making up things so I really want to parse it.

It means, sometimes the best you will get is speculation, because there’s no definite answers to be had.

E.g. it’d be nice if just hearing the CVR meant you knew the exact cause. Unfortunately not the case here.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#535

Post by VBprogrammer »

potamic wrote: post #471
nottorp wrote: post #408

Almost 400 comments and no avherald link for reference? https://avherald.com/h?article=528f27ec

> On Jul 12th 2025 (UTC) India's media report that the investigation is NOT focussing on a human action causing the fuel switches to appear in the CUTOFF position, but on a system failure. Service Bulletins by Boeing issued in year 2018 recommending to upgrade the fuel switches to locked versions to prevent inadvertent flip of the switches, as well as the FAA/GE issued Service Bulletin FAA-2021-0273-0013 Attachment 2…

My concern would be that the investigation in this case is more likely to be biased towards a system failure. Disgracing a major flag carrier is something very few regulars have the independence and courage to get away with.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#536

Post by mr_toad »

userbinator wrote: post #193
ceejayoz wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both switches, at slightly different times? Seems pretty unlikely.

A rodent chewing on wires. Vibration-induced chafing. Tin whiskers causing an intermittent short. There are many possibilities, those came to mind first.

It amazes me that some people can ever make it out the door if they spend all their lives contemplating a series of increasingly unlikely possibilities.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#537

Post by upcoming-sesame »

UltraSane wrote: post #414

Video would definitively show whether either pilot moved these switches or if some other mechanism caused the movement. The aviation industry has consistently resisted cockpit video recording despite decades of available technology. The pilot unions argue privacy concerns, but cases like this demonstrate the value it would have. Current audio captured the pilots' denials, but without visual confirmation we may never…

Is this really the reason they object video recording in the cockpit ?

If so I agree it's not a good enough reason.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#538

Post by uwagar »

cjbprime wrote: post #156
russdill wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no possible way to confuse these two actions. There's a reason a wheel is attached to the gear lever.

> There is no possible way to confuse these two actions. This is obviously an overstatement. Any two regularly performed actions can be confused. Sometimes (when tired or distracted) I've walked into my bathroom intending to shave, but mistakenly brushed my teeth and left. My toothbrush and razor are not similar in function or placement.

this bathroom thing and various similar scenarios happens to me when im on weed.

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#539

Post by anonymars »

neuronic wrote: post #463
0_-_0 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could have been unimportant to them

No it could not. Is your conclusion coming from a decade of piloting or maintaining commercial aircraft? If not, why are you speculating with zero knowledge?

As hominem, did Captain Steeeeve's experience mean anything when he talked about the flaps?

Re: Preliminary report into Air India crash released

#540

Post by superasn »

dubcanada wrote: post #461
superasn wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a video feed of the cockpit inside the black box? If not there should be one as even my simple home wifi camera can record hours of hd video on the small sd card. And If there is, wouldn't that help to instantly identify such things?

No neither black box stores video. One stores audio on flash memory and the other stores flight details, sensors etc. I don’t think video is a bad idea. I assume there is a reason why it wasn’t done. Data wise black boxes actually store very little data (maybe a 100mbs), I don’t know if that is due to how old they are, or the requirements of withstanding extremes.

Not sure why something so important isn't included.

Heck they can make a back up directly to the cloud in addition to black box considering I'm able to watch YouTube in some flights nowadays.

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