Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#201

Post by johnnyanmac » Thu, Jul 03, 2025, 6:03 PM UTC

billy99k wrote: post #193

ethbr1 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Look at the Taxicab unions. We could only get a cab in person or through the phone, because the unions had no incentive to innovate. It look a non-union startup to push them to actually make it convenient and better for the customer. OTOH, gig drivers are being paid below minimum wage, with no benefits, no retirement plan, and no stability of work. As a customer, yay technology and UX! But as a human, it's objectiv…

"OTOH, gig drivers are being paid below minimum wage, with no benefits, no retirement plan, and no stability of work." Gig work is not supposed to be stable, have benefits, or retirement. It's supposed to be there for someone to make extra money. I know lots of people that used it to make extra money and now can't make anything because of new regulations. If you wanted to drive a Taxi in NYC, it was a million dollar…

>How was this better for humans or customers?

The workers got paid, couldn't be laid off easily, and can make a career.

But i guess I see this line of thinking and see exactly how we got to trumpism. The current system has flaws and bad actors, let's instead burn it down and replace it with even worse actors who make all the money. Don't bother using anti trust or regulating the new industry, the old boogeyman ruined it.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#202

Post by johnnyanmac » Thu, Jul 03, 2025, 6:05 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #33

idkwhattocallme wrote: post #9

For the most part, I'm indifferent to layoffs. Companies over hire and then course correct. It's part of the game. But for MSFT, it rubs me the wrong way. In the past 5 years, their stock has soared (150% on stock and doubled in valuation). They are insanely profitable ($82B profit). They are diverse (no existential business risk). The fact that they are unceremoniously laying off 30K of the people that helped them g…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_and_unions I know, I know, "union bad." I guess people will say that until all that is left is a person to watch the Machine, and a dog to bite the person if they touch the Machine. Or all the jobs are offshored to the cheapest labor on the globe.

"union bad" people are why Microsoft can just do this. And do it again in 3 months. And in 6 months.

If people would rather lose all job stability their parents had as a career instead of coming together to work in their best interests, what can you really do?

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#203

Post by johnnyanmac » Thu, Jul 03, 2025, 6:10 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #67

toomuchtodo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took us decades to get to this outcome (since the Reagan era), I assume it'll take decades to get out of it. Mental models are rigid, progress occurs one funeral time (Max Planck), ~2M people 55+ in the US age out every year (~5k per day), so the opportunity is with young folks who will or already are in the workforce, etc. It ain't happening overnight. Solutions such as "try harder," "be more lucky," or "just fin…

If someone wants to work in a union shop, they can choose a job that is unionized or try to unionize their current/next workplace. People who don’t want to work for a union shop should have the same amount of voice as people who do (1 vote per employee). I think unions have struggled to gain traction because it’s obvious that they cost money to run (which is fine and proper) but it’s not obvious that that expense pay…

>If a median tech worker pays $1300-2600/yr in dues (1-2% of median salary), I think it’s reasonable for them to expect more than that on a net-present-value basis.

The "NPV" is thst you aren't part of the next wave of layoffs. Losing a month of salary every 6-12 months is great insurance compared to losing a month of salary a month after you get laid off.

Do people really not value stability anymore? Do they have no craft to build nor challenge into? Is everyone here just older workers who don't realize how utterly abused Gen Z has been by this workforce, if they can even get in? I'd pay 10% of my salary for some stability after these 2 years of fallout, and I still ended up on thr more fortunate side of these layoffs for my sub-generation of late millennial.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#204

Post by johnnyanmac » Thu, Jul 03, 2025, 6:12 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #134

toomuchtodo wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree on all of your points. If the majority supports unions (citations in my above comment), and everyone has the same vote (as you mention), it's just a matter of time of continuing organizing efforts while the folks who don't support it either exit the labor force [1] [2] or filter out of orgs attempting to organize who don't believe in it (younger workers with a longer labor participation time horizon). I fully…

It’ll interesting to see if GenZ support changes as they become GenX’s age.

I see it as sink or swim. They reform the job market that spited them, or they adjust and just tell the alphas and betas how they never had a steady job and why bother?

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#205

Post by johnnyanmac » Thu, Jul 03, 2025, 6:16 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #135

toomuchtodo wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demographics had to change and belief systems had to develop for Mamdani to win the NYC primary. Huge turn out, 12 point victory over Cuomo. Democratic socialist policy platform. This is the future as young people remain economically disadvantaged and old folks with their beliefs and wealth to protect age out. Young people aren't going to get more conservative because they don't have something to lose economically as…

> Young people aren't going to get more conservative because IOW, “ this time is different!” Maybe that will be true this time, but it’s far from a given.

To be fair, this time is literally different. So many social contracts that were built In for boomers and Gen X were never a thing in gen Z.

I don't know if it will be different in a good way, but I doubt in 30 years, Gen Z is going to be telling their kids and grandkids to walk into an office and give a good handshake to the hiring manager. Norms and etiquette have completely shifted.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#206

Post by mxuribe » Thu, Jul 03, 2025, 6:44 PM UTC

nyarlathotep_ wrote: post #195

mxuribe wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, you're 100% correct about these big "trusted partners"! At my current and previous dayjobs, no matter if you had employees who were top experts in their fields, if some nitwit from MaKenzie, Accenture Deloitte, etc. says that the sky is brown, then the enterprise's senior leaders will ignore the inhouse expert, and just blindly believe that the sky is brown per whatever these "consultants" say. I've had colleague…

You've described my experience exactly. The amount of money that "enterprises" will spend in order to avoid hiring actual competent people is staggering. They quite literally spend orders of magnitude more than just hiring people, always end up with mixed results and have no ownership over the things they depend on. I've also seen several cases where these companies maintain a "predatory" relationship: they build som…

Ok, so the only silver lining in all of this (if any), is that I'm not alone in these types of experiences. Thanks for validating that its not just me seeing this same kind of craziness! :-)

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#207

Post by hbn » Thu, Jul 03, 2025, 9:21 PM UTC

anonymousab wrote: post #86

tjpnz wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Their pivot to a marketplace model where their games run everywhere is an admission that they lost the race to Sony. Don Mattrick has a lot to answer for. Microsoft was killing it during the seventh generation and he was able to burn everything down over a period of two days. Xbox never recovered after that.

Don Mattrick isn't the reason that so many Microsoft studios have repeatedly shipped poor products or failed to ship at all over the past decade. Don Mattrick isn't the reason reason that Microsoft still seems to have the worst taste-testers in the industry. Don Mattrick isn't the reason that internal studios like 343 have messed up 18/6 requirements. Don Mattrick isn't the reason that Microsoft kept acquiring, messi…

What's funny is most of that bad PR the Xbox One got leading up to its launch with anti-consumer practices are more or less standard now because everyone basically just forgot that video games didn't used to require online connections, and very few are still buying physical games so you can't just lend your friend a game like Sony dunked on Microsoft for. Even a lot of physical games now have a code for an install that ties itself to your account, to discourage buying used games.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#208

Post by atomicnumber3 » Thu, Jul 03, 2025, 9:24 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #184

atomicnumber3 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's literally how capitalism determines wages, yes. I too have critiques of capitalism. But I often refrain from enumerating them on every single comment that relates to labor because otherwise we never get to actually discuss labor in its current context.

Fortunately there are other ways to determine wages. Not every society expects people to achieve maximal performace on quarterly OKR, while management foreman's play rythmic cadence drums and whip slashes.

Ok sure, dude I am with you, I am a socialist. But this doesn't help us navigate the existing system we have to work in until we can finally establish a truly socialist society.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#209

Post by mathverse » Fri, Jul 04, 2025, 8:35 AM UTC

darth_avocado wrote: post #153

mathverse wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also bizarre...all those american-indian or indian CEOs firing americans and replacing them with indians. I mean lol..have u heard of american-czech CEO doing that to americans with czechs. Not really right...

American-Whatever CEOs cut American jobs and ship them abroad all the time. For software American-whatever CEOs use India as a hub for offshore hiring, because that’s where they have options. If tomorrow Mexico or Latin American countries have a lot of software engineers available and are cheaper than India, the jobs would go there. What’s really bizarre is that when the CEO happens to be Indian American, there’s a p…

Nope this is not the case.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#210

Post by vitaflo » Fri, Jul 04, 2025, 6:38 PM UTC

shadowtree wrote: post #16

This pairs well with: 1 - Microsoft investing 3bn USD in India-based developers: https://www.reuters.com/technology/microsoft-invest-3-bln-ex... 2 - Microsoft having 4700 H1B filings for fiscal 2025: https://www.myvisajobs.com/employer/microsoft/ Utterly predictable behavior by Satya Nadella.

This is the future for all tech companies. Tech workers in the US are the modern day factory workers. Offshore skill set rise plus AI means the end of US tech jobs in the next decade just like it meant the end of US factory work in the 90's.

Everyone in tech thinks they are special but companies will always do what they can to reduce costs and tech salaries are some of the biggest costs companies have. They're going to do everything in their power to reduce them.