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Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

bloomberg.com

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Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#151

Post by InkCanon »

nyarlathotep_ wrote: post #43

I do wonder if these trends continue (paired with the offshoring and H1B replacements they're all in on (otherwise mentioned in this thread), how this effects the local housing markets in places like, in this case, Seattle. If every third 22 year old isn't making 200K, how are you going to sustain a market of crapshacks "worth" 1M?

I predict many areas will eventually become like old mining/factory towns. Middle class jobs are being offshored at an astounding rate. Just doing some math - if a tech company lays off 7% of its employees for six years and sends the jobs overseas, nearly half of its American employees will be fired

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#152

Post by atomicnumber3 »

pjmlp wrote: post #101
atomicnumber3 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, if it were actually about "low performers", this wouldn't be in the news. They'd just be terminated during/before perf review.

Somehow on places like HN, people aren't worthy of a job, it is the inverse of Peter Principle, keep firing the low performers until they land a job where they manage not to get fired.

That's literally how capitalism determines wages, yes. I too have critiques of capitalism. But I often refrain from enumerating them on every single comment that relates to labor because otherwise we never get to actually discuss labor in its current context.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#153

Post by darth_avocado »

mathverse wrote: post #126
amendegree wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it’s pretty clear that MS is abusing the H1B program. Which is supposed to be used only when no local talent can be found… if you’re firing 1000s of local people I have a hard time believing they are truly less skilled than the H1Bs being hired. Most engineers (H1Bs, and not) I’ve met aren’t exceptional. Saying that isn’t xenophobic.

It's also bizarre...all those american-indian or indian CEOs firing americans and replacing them with indians. I mean lol..have u heard of american-czech CEO doing that to americans with czechs. Not really right...

American-Whatever CEOs cut American jobs and ship them abroad all the time. For software American-whatever CEOs use India as a hub for offshore hiring, because that’s where they have options. If tomorrow Mexico or Latin American countries have a lot of software engineers available and are cheaper than India, the jobs would go there.

What’s really bizarre is that when the CEO happens to be Indian American, there’s a problem and a conspiracy.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#154

Post by devjab »

pseudosavant wrote: post #36

Microsoft's most recent quarterly numbers, for those interested: - Revenue was $69.6 billion and increased 12% - Operating income was $31.7 billion and increased 17% (up 16% in constant currency) - Net income was $24.1 billion and increased 10% How can you justify needing layoffs when you made $24B in net income on $70B in revenue?? I guess $24B and a 10% YoY increase is almost failing?

I'm not going to defend Microsoft, but you don't budget based on current achievements. You budget on future prospects, and right now Microsoft is facing some tough times in Europe. The biggest IT expense in my country is the public sector buying various Microsoft licenses, and everyone from the top down are looking into replacing Microsoft with Open Source alternatives due to digital sovereignty.

I doubt that has a big impact on Microsoft's gaming divisions, but it would help explain why they might not think the previous decades of growth will continue.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#155

Post by ToDougie »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #95
999900000999 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew this was coming when Microsoft brought Activision. As ex game industry I nearly started crying at the news. Mergers always lead to layoffs, games aren't doing great as they're not essential in an iffy economy. Microsoft is seeing the writing on the wall and cutting internal studios. It's much cheaper to just pay 3rd parties to release on Gamepass vs having to fund an entire games development. I don't think we…

I don't think consumer spending power is the limiter in the games space at the moment. They've simply run out of new customers. The explosive growth of the gaming industry over the 90s-2010s was fueled by continuously unlocking new swathes of consumers. Games went from being for kids, to being for adults and kids, to people who would never consider themselves "gamers" with mobile, which in turn created the "whaling"…

I don't know all of the economics, and I certainly hadn't considered what you laid out in your 2nd paragraph until I read through it--but as a father, I am certainly spending far less on games for my children/self. We just don't have the money.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#156

Post by trashcan »

strict9 wrote: post #7
trashcan wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first sentence of the article is: > Microsoft Corp. began job cuts that will impact about 9,000 workers, its second major wave of layoffs this year as it seeks to control costs while ramping up on artificial intelligence spending. And AI is a bullet point in the "Takeaways, powered by Bloomberg AI" section as well.

Yes. But in most messaging the layoffs are a result in productivity gains supposedly from AI. Not the same reasoning as capex costs.

I'm just responding to what you said:

> Surprisingly no mention of AI in an article about mass layoffs at a tech company.

Sorry if I misunderstood.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#157

Post by sitzkrieg »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #26
sitzkrieg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What nonsense. I've been in tech for ~ 20 years and it's literally taken me from living below the poverty line on ssi disability to fully financially independent. This is the one career where I could have accomplished that. It's basically 'disability proof'.

ive been in tech just as long. im a craftsman who cares about my work. i work for myself. no big tech company will ever prioritize the right stuff ever again, that is pretty clear everytime i make the mistake of updating any software ever.

i guess the real message is the boom is over if you want cushy or easy money

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#158

Post by xienze »

pmyteh wrote: post #122
aydyn wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are not effective when there's such a surplus of labor and people willing to break lines. It wont work in today's tech labor market.

The traditional response to that was violence against scabs, for better or for worse: it keeps people from breaking picket lines even when otherwise willing. This photo in particular captures something of it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Strikers_Riot

> The traditional response to that was violence against scabs

And how are you going to do that when the scabs are in India? Unions work in “physical” domains (like plumbing, factory work, etc.), not so much in “virtual” domains where all you need is a computer to do your work and there’s an entire world full of workers who would think they’ve died and gone to heaven if they could make half your salary.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#159

Post by mancerayder »

aydyn wrote: post #108
stego-tech wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thinking about the middle class in the previous generation, it was unions that effectively ensured a labor job meant a secure future. I wonder if that's the solution (again). It is, and they are. It’s why Reagan fired ATC strikers and blackballed them. It’s why private enterprise stockpiled machine guns and chemical weapons against strikers back in the Gilded Age. It’s why companies will spend billions to block Uni…

Unions are not effective when there's such a surplus of labor and people willing to break lines. It wont work in today's tech labor market.

Exactly. What are unions going to do, prevent H1B workers from replacing them?

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#160

Post by idkwhattocallme »

silisili wrote: post #143
aydyn wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are not effective when there's such a surplus of labor and people willing to break lines. It wont work in today's tech labor market.

Sure it would. There are way more employed tech people than unemployed. Imagine if every single person at a company like MS up and went on strike tomorrow. Could MS replace them all with scabs? Sure, with enough time and money. But it wouldn't happen overnight, and things would get very dire if not company ruining in the meantime.

A digital strike by all employees for a week to get a collective bargaining agreement in place to show companies just how far AI has to go as a replacement would be powerful.
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