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Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

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Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#131

Post by DebtDeflation »

idkwhattocallme wrote: post #9

For the most part, I'm indifferent to layoffs. Companies over hire and then course correct. It's part of the game. But for MSFT, it rubs me the wrong way. In the past 5 years, their stock has soared (150% on stock and doubled in valuation). They are insanely profitable ($82B profit). They are diverse (no existential business risk). The fact that they are unceremoniously laying off 30K of the people that helped them g…

>how do you have a layoff every couple of months for 3 years

It has absolutely nothing to do with managing out low performers or managing existential business risk. It has everything to do with managing annual EPS to Wall Street's expectations. There was an inflection point at the end of 2022 where Revenue growth slowed so to maintain Earnings growth, costs had to be cut continuously, and this process is still playing out.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#132

Post by aksss »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #70
sokoloff wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone wants to work in a union shop, they can choose a job that is unionized or try to unionize their current/next workplace. People who don’t want to work for a union shop should have the same amount of voice as people who do (1 vote per employee). I think unions have struggled to gain traction because it’s obvious that they cost money to run (which is fine and proper) but it’s not obvious that that expense pay…

I agree on all of your points. If the majority supports unions (citations in my above comment), and everyone has the same vote (as you mention), it's just a matter of time of continuing organizing efforts while the folks who don't support it either exit the labor force [1] [2] or filter out of orgs attempting to organize who don't believe in it (younger workers with a longer labor participation time horizon). I fully…

Liking unions in the abstract is very different than wanting to be part of one.

Opinions about unions tend to “mature” and become more nuanced with age (after exposure to both as a member and as a manager of union staff), for worse and better.

Adjust expectations for human behavior accordingly.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#133

Post by toomuchtodo »

aksss wrote: post #132
toomuchtodo wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree on all of your points. If the majority supports unions (citations in my above comment), and everyone has the same vote (as you mention), it's just a matter of time of continuing organizing efforts while the folks who don't support it either exit the labor force [1] [2] or filter out of orgs attempting to organize who don't believe in it (younger workers with a longer labor participation time horizon). I fully…

Liking unions in the abstract is very different than wanting to be part of one. Opinions about unions tend to “mature” and become more nuanced with age (after exposure to both as a member and as a manager of union staff), for worse and better. Adjust expectations for human behavior accordingly.

Demographics had to change and belief systems had to develop for Mamdani to win the NYC primary. Huge turn out, 12 point victory over Cuomo. Democratic socialist policy platform. This is the future as young people remain economically disadvantaged and old folks with their beliefs and wealth to protect age out. Young people aren't going to get more conservative because they don't have something to lose economically as older cohorts might have had.

If workers are not seeing improvements in life over time, why would their viewpoint change? I agree a minority of workers might change their mind when they luck into favorable economic and labor circumstances, but luck will not find the majority, and when it comes to voting, a majority matters.

How the US Is Destroying Young People’s Future | Scott Galloway | TED - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEJ4hkpQW8E

Part 2: Scott Galloway’s Viral TED Talk on How the Old Are Stealing from the Young - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjNV6JwlV2s

Millennials are shattering the oldest rule in politics: Western conservatives are at risk from generations of voters who are no longer moving to the right as they age - https://www.ft.com/content/c361e372-769e-45cd-a063-f5c0a7767... | https://archive.today/lQoLa

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#134

Post by sokoloff »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #70
sokoloff wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone wants to work in a union shop, they can choose a job that is unionized or try to unionize their current/next workplace. People who don’t want to work for a union shop should have the same amount of voice as people who do (1 vote per employee). I think unions have struggled to gain traction because it’s obvious that they cost money to run (which is fine and proper) but it’s not obvious that that expense pay…

I agree on all of your points. If the majority supports unions (citations in my above comment), and everyone has the same vote (as you mention), it's just a matter of time of continuing organizing efforts while the folks who don't support it either exit the labor force [1] [2] or filter out of orgs attempting to organize who don't believe in it (younger workers with a longer labor participation time horizon). I fully…

It’ll interesting to see if GenZ support changes as they become GenX’s age.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#135

Post by sokoloff »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #133
aksss wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liking unions in the abstract is very different than wanting to be part of one. Opinions about unions tend to “mature” and become more nuanced with age (after exposure to both as a member and as a manager of union staff), for worse and better. Adjust expectations for human behavior accordingly.

Demographics had to change and belief systems had to develop for Mamdani to win the NYC primary. Huge turn out, 12 point victory over Cuomo. Democratic socialist policy platform. This is the future as young people remain economically disadvantaged and old folks with their beliefs and wealth to protect age out. Young people aren't going to get more conservative because they don't have something to lose economically as…

> Young people aren't going to get more conservative because

IOW, “this time is different!” Maybe that will be true this time, but it’s far from a given.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#136

Post by toomuchtodo »

sokoloff wrote: post #135
toomuchtodo wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demographics had to change and belief systems had to develop for Mamdani to win the NYC primary. Huge turn out, 12 point victory over Cuomo. Democratic socialist policy platform. This is the future as young people remain economically disadvantaged and old folks with their beliefs and wealth to protect age out. Young people aren't going to get more conservative because they don't have something to lose economically as…

> Young people aren't going to get more conservative because IOW, “ this time is different!” Maybe that will be true this time, but it’s far from a given.

See the Financial Times citation with data backing my assertion. I agree the future is hard to predict, and humans are tricky.

https://d4pgq7fazddwpa.archive.ph/lQoLa/f1886c78af8eb03745a8...

https://careers.augsburg.edu/blog/2024/03/18/gen-z-does-not-...

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/05/14/on-the-...

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#137

Post by RajT88 »

idkwhattocallme wrote: post #9

For the most part, I'm indifferent to layoffs. Companies over hire and then course correct. It's part of the game. But for MSFT, it rubs me the wrong way. In the past 5 years, their stock has soared (150% on stock and doubled in valuation). They are insanely profitable ($82B profit). They are diverse (no existential business risk). The fact that they are unceremoniously laying off 30K of the people that helped them g…

This was an interesting read which cropped up on LinkedIn for me today:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/zoology-us-microsoft-old-time...

Layoffs have always been part of the game. There is reason to believe this latest set of layoffs are different (Scott Hanselmann himself said so on LinkedIn recently - "Laying off my staff is never easy, but this is the first time I've had to lay people off for someone else's business goals" whatever that means).

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#138

Post by arbitrary_name »

ffsm8 wrote: post #55
999900000999 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew this was coming when Microsoft brought Activision. As ex game industry I nearly started crying at the news. Mergers always lead to layoffs, games aren't doing great as they're not essential in an iffy economy. Microsoft is seeing the writing on the wall and cutting internal studios. It's much cheaper to just pay 3rd parties to release on Gamepass vs having to fund an entire games development. I don't think we…

> games aren't doing great as they're not essential in an iffy economy. Historically, games have actually performed extremely well in economic downturns. Likely because they're extremely cheap entertainment if you count $ per hour of entertainment, but that's just my view on it. And gaming as a whole is doing great. The only part that's falling off a cliff is the woke garbage life service games AAA studios have been…

Who gives a flying toss about political content in a game? That sounds like a weird right wing thing. Either the gameplay is good, or its not. Why does woke matter, and why should anyone care?

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#139

Post by RajT88 »

MangoToupe wrote: post #69
amendegree wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to hate on immigrants… but shouldn’t H1B’s be the first on the chopping block of layoffs? Hard to imagine all those H1Bs are so unique that others already employed can’t replace them.

You don't need to pay H1Bs as much. They're a bargain deal.

The spice must flow.

Preferably at a lower cost, though...

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#140

Post by RajT88 »

nly wrote: post #112
crmd wrote: post #41

Earlier in my career I worked for a tech industry-famous CEO who is long retired. One of the most unconventional things he taught me was that “our highest obligation is to employees and their families. Second is to investors. Third is to the communities we operate in. Obviously don’t ever say this in a board meeting or investor conference”. And he meant it. When products got cancelled, people got reassigned. Terminat…

Aren't most MSFT employees also shareholders thanks to stock awards?

That's how they retain them.
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