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Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

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Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#121

Post by UncleMeat »

cloverich wrote: post #106
CommenterPerson wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is Milton Freidman hype and brainwashing. A company profiting in a society has a responsibility towards that society. In Germany, they accomplish this by having one union representative on the board. Profit at any cost leads to a society where workers are paid just enough to prevent starvation so that there are workers.

Its not brainwashing though, how to properly regular this is as old as Adam Smith right? Union leader is one approach. But really if the US had a proper safety net, universal healthcare, and progressive taxes on capital accumulation, layoffs in OPs framing would not be nearly as bad. The real issue here isnt the layoffs. Its that the top are pulling up profits, theres no quality healthcare for the unemployed (and get…

Smith actually wrote against this very concept. The idea that a corporation's only responsibility is to its shareholders is relatively recent.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#122

Post by pmyteh »

aydyn wrote: post #108
stego-tech wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thinking about the middle class in the previous generation, it was unions that effectively ensured a labor job meant a secure future. I wonder if that's the solution (again). It is, and they are. It’s why Reagan fired ATC strikers and blackballed them. It’s why private enterprise stockpiled machine guns and chemical weapons against strikers back in the Gilded Age. It’s why companies will spend billions to block Uni…

Unions are not effective when there's such a surplus of labor and people willing to break lines. It wont work in today's tech labor market.

The traditional response to that was violence against scabs, for better or for worse: it keeps people from breaking picket lines even when otherwise willing.

This photo in particular captures something of it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Strikers_Riot

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#123

Post by xnyan »

wingspar wrote: post #79
stego-tech wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thinking about the middle class in the previous generation, it was unions that effectively ensured a labor job meant a secure future. I wonder if that's the solution (again). It is, and they are. It’s why Reagan fired ATC strikers and blackballed them. It’s why private enterprise stockpiled machine guns and chemical weapons against strikers back in the Gilded Age. It’s why companies will spend billions to block Uni…

Wasn’t the PATCO ATC strike illegal?

The American Revolution, wasn’t it illegal?

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#124

Post by DrillShopper »

riffraff wrote: post #107
heathrow83829 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that companies who are monopolies (especially government granted monopolies) have a responsibility towards society. But this does not apply to companies that need to compete to exist. For example, if a restaraunt or airlines (highly competitive industry), did anything to reduce their competitiveness they would instantly loose marketshare. that doesn't work. which one is Microsoft?

It does not apply if regulation allows it, but this does not need to be the case, and has been debated for decades > [the New Deal architect, A. A. Berle] argued that corporations should "serve ... all society" through legally enforceable rules https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berle%E2%80%93Dodd_debate "profit is the only goal" is not a law of nature, it's the outcome of a specific system of laws.

Yes, and who owns the politicians that make those laws?

It certainly isn't the worker.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#125

Post by mathverse »

wonderwonder wrote: post #88
trod1234 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is one of the issues, yes. The main issue though is one of demographics. Like Japan, we have insufficient young people to do the jobs and produce what's needed to support the old. Worse, the old have utilized money printing and their privileged position to enrich themselves, and in the process it is tearing the country apart, and through economic manipulation force conscripting the young at suppressed wages to p…

While I agree with your overall point, I don't think the current issue with US jobs being outsourced is due to demographics. I think its simply one of cheaper wages. The fact that they are actively laying off US workers proves that there are existing US workers that can and have been doing the job. They are letting them go though so as to boost their bottom line to drive "shareholder value". This is an entirely self…

It's not only about cheaper workers but an army of controllable drones.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#126

Post by mathverse »

amendegree wrote: post #102
darth_avocado wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hard to imagine all those H1Bs are so unique that others already employed can’t replace them. I think the language speaks for itself

Yes, it’s pretty clear that MS is abusing the H1B program. Which is supposed to be used only when no local talent can be found… if you’re firing 1000s of local people I have a hard time believing they are truly less skilled than the H1Bs being hired. Most engineers (H1Bs, and not) I’ve met aren’t exceptional. Saying that isn’t xenophobic.

It's also bizarre...all those american-indian or indian CEOs firing americans and replacing them with indians.

I mean lol..have u heard of american-czech CEO doing that to americans with czechs. Not really right...

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#127

Post by triceratops »

wonderwonder wrote: post #116
triceratops wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are they "importing" workers and still keeping them "offshore"?

The are doing both friend. I am currently the last US employee on my project with a fortune 250 company. Started off with 60 devs. Half onshore, half offshore. Now I am the last on shore dev. Still 60 devs total

So they've only offshored. Not imported.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#128

Post by wonderwonder »

triceratops wrote: post #127
wonderwonder wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The are doing both friend. I am currently the last US employee on my project with a fortune 250 company. Started off with 60 devs. Half onshore, half offshore. Now I am the last on shore dev. Still 60 devs total

So they've only offshored. Not imported.

My company yes. Other companies do both

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#129

Post by ModernMech »

amendegree wrote: post #32
tjpnz wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Their pivot to a marketplace model where their games run everywhere is an admission that they lost the race to Sony. Don Mattrick has a lot to answer for. Microsoft was killing it during the seventh generation and he was able to burn everything down over a period of two days. Xbox never recovered after that.

The Kinect was super cool as a demo but totally failed to actually make compelling gameplay in the standard living room

The real legacy of the Kinect was that it revolutionized vision in robotics, as it made sensors that used to cost thousands, cost $150.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#130

Post by wonderwonder »

darth_avocado wrote: post #97
wonderwonder wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is they are laying off US workers and then importing Indian workers to replace them via 3rd party contractors. I saw a post on X today which essentially said "Ai will not replace your job, an Indian with Ai will replace your job" - this was posted by an Indian and he was completely right. Microsoft is actively laying off people with 150k salaries and replacing them with offshore workers earning a 10th of th…

> Microsoft is actively laying off people with 150k salaries and replacing them with offshore workers earning a 10th of the salary. I know the talking points on HN like to portray Indian developers as cheap, low quality labor, but contrary to popular belief, they aren’t getting workers for $15k. A Median senior developer earns almost $90k in India in Microsoft. https://www.levels.fyi/companies/microsoft/salaries/soft…

To be clear, I never painted indian devs as low quality. Many of the ones I work with are very smart, skilled people
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