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Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

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Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#481

Post by mrtksn »

throw4573s2 wrote: post #471
stego-tech wrote: post #193

All the bickering about the validity of this specific story and the “if you don’t like it don’t ever leave home to go anywhere ever” misses the crux of the issue that these articles are trying to raise: * Do we agree that a law enforcement arm of any country should be allowed to perform warrantless searches of electronic devices? * Do we find it acceptable that persons with critical views are denied entry to countrie…

> On the flip side, I have serious doubts about my ability to enter authoritarian regimes like China because of my outspoken critique of government policies, regardless of my intentions within their borders. I’ve posted a lot of pro-Taiwan content and not once have I ever been interrogated at the Chinese borders. Many times they don’t even talk to me. Unless you are a well-known and famous agitator, I highly doubt th…

American dystopia is based on total population control: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44354657

IRL, the dictatorships we have don’t actually control the population that much. As long as it doesn’t create problems for the administration , nobody cares what you talk about..

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#482

Post by hayst4ck »

kcplate wrote: post #459
throw0101c wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> […] countries that profess protection of speech for its citizens? Not just citizens: AIUI the various US Constitution Amendments apply to everyone with-in the US. And more generally, the US sees itself—or at least its ideals—as the model people should strive for ("City upon a Hill").

> AIUI the various US Constitution Amendments apply to everyone with-in the US Mostly correct (depends on which amendment), but technically this guy didn’t cross into the US yet since he hadn’t cleared customs and border control…so the first amendment doesn’t apply to him.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

No where does it say "on US soil" or "for US Citizens," and that is absolutely 100% by design based on the founding fathers philosophy which can be read in the declaration of independence.

It states plainly and unqualified "make no law abridging the freedom of speech." This both asserts that there is a freedom of speech that exists outside of the government and that congress shall make no law abridging it.

In their philosophy, the government purposefully doesn't grant the right to freedom of speech, because the founding fathers argument was that their, and all people's, natural god given (literally) rights are why they were justified in rebelling against the British government -- that rights exist outside of, and above, the government.

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#483

Post by throwawaysleep »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #444
olalonde wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't ask any questions when you leave either, unless you overstayed your visa. In that case, they just ask you to come back with money to pay the fine. It's actually kind of funny: they don’t detain you or anything, just politely tell you to find an ATM and come back when you have cash to pay the fine.

This happened to my wife in Japan when we were trying to board the second try of our flight cancelled the day before. I told them "we don't have any Japanese money, and anyways, this was Delta's fault, so just get them to pay." We sat around for a half hour while they got Delta to pay her fine.

I’m impressed that was successful.

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#484

Post by edanm »

stego-tech wrote: post #404
legitster wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Borders in particular are tricky things. You don't have any legal right to be admitted into a country that doesn't want you, and there is no due process that protects you. Warrants are not really a thing. So it really comes down to how friendly your countries are with each other and how much you are willing to put up with to get entry.

That’s how it currently is, but now how it has always been or always will be. Never mistake the present for either the past or the future. That’s what I’m getting at, here. Folks are digging into the details of what’s in front of them instead of stepping back and looking at the bigger picture first.

If the bigger picture includes completely changing the entire way the world works, the way countries work, how humans have always organized themselves, etc, then I think it makes sense that people are not looking at it because it is completely unrealistic and irrelevant.

"Let's not discuss this specific government policy, because should governments even exist" is not very interesting.

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#485

Post by anal_reactor »

stego-tech wrote: post #193

All the bickering about the validity of this specific story and the “if you don’t like it don’t ever leave home to go anywhere ever” misses the crux of the issue that these articles are trying to raise: * Do we agree that a law enforcement arm of any country should be allowed to perform warrantless searches of electronic devices? * Do we find it acceptable that persons with critical views are denied entry to countrie…

> The reality is that this is on the rise, not just in the USA but globally, and we should be having frank discussions on whether this is acceptable or not given its repercussions.

Another reality is that people don't actually value personal freedoms, and they happily give that up in exchange for a tiny bit more sense of security. Lots of discussions on this topic assume that westerners believe in freedom of speech, but that's simply not true.

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#486

Post by BrandoElFollito »

I used to travel all over the world from mid 90's to late 00's. Including about once a month to the US from Europe and Asia.

I am French, white, blue-eyed, it was business travel in business or first class.

I never understood why the US border was so hostile to visitors. Equal to the Russian border if not worse.

The US used to be an immigrants country, built by these immigrants. So why the hostility against foreigners? Their parents or grand parents were in the same spot, usually way worse wealth-wise.

Middle East entries were the best - sometimes slow, chaotic but always enjoyable. Europe was with bored agents who did not give a shit.

After one last trip my children begged for (the landscapes in the US are indeniably wonderful) I stopped going to the US, mostly because of a vague fear of being arrested for no reason. I felt like in a dictatorship country (but worse than in the ME where there predicability).

In Europe you can get in trouble, but it is soft. You have to fight the bureaucracy but that's more or less all.

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#487

Post by [deleted] »

mrtksn wrote: post #480
hayst4ck wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This country was founded on the idea that rights transcend government and that a government cannot grant rights because rights do not come from law, but from human dignity intrinsic to all of us. If rights are derived from human dignity, then a government cannot grant them, it can only protect them. If a government were to grant rights, then they would be privileges and not rights. You can read the American founder's…

what I find puzzling is how come the new administration is moving so fast without resistance? As with US other countries also have some intrinsic understanding of how the government should work and when a government does something against some principle, they are met with huge pressure from the public. People will stop cooperating or start protesting. It took Erdogan 20 years to dismantle the core of the secular repu…

[deleted]

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#488

Post by account42 »

edanm wrote: post #484
stego-tech wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s how it currently is, but now how it has always been or always will be. Never mistake the present for either the past or the future. That’s what I’m getting at, here. Folks are digging into the details of what’s in front of them instead of stepping back and looking at the bigger picture first.

If the bigger picture includes completely changing the entire way the world works, the way countries work, how humans have always organized themselves, etc, then I think it makes sense that people are not looking at it because it is completely unrealistic and irrelevant. "Let's not discuss this specific government policy, because should governments even exist" is not very interesting.

Holy strawman dude. You don't have to abolish the entire concept of governments in order to guarantee basic human rights at border crossings. Countries work out all kinds of shared minimum standards in international agreements.

Which is why the guy in the article is wrong:

> I don't feel there is any point in contacting the State Department, nor do I think they have any power against such a powerful and strict country as the United States

That's exactly what he should have done if things happened as described and the Norwegian government should then take appropriate action.

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#489

Post by ben_w »

anigbrowl wrote: post #474
School-Cotton wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of analogies isn't to claim that the two things being compared are exactly identical, it's to draw attention to the ways in which they're similar that are relevant to the point being discussed. By the way, I never said anything like "power tripping pro-MAGA border guards are okay because there are volcanoes in Iceland", so your lightning vs. speed limits analogy isn't relevant.

Nonsense. Your presence in Iceland or not has no influence on whether a volcano there erupts, whereas a sharp drop in tourism is a market signal that may influence policy in the future (not necessarily under the same administration).

Conversely, a sharp drop in tourism to Iceland is a market signal that a something along the lines of "volcano has exploded" has happened (what with there currently being few other reasons for such a drop), and "a tourist was killed when a volcano exploded" has a non-zero chance of modifying Iceland's tourism policies.

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#490

Post by [deleted] »

sarchertech wrote: post #201
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

When I say it’s possible, I don’t think that it’s the official CBP policy, but I have had enough interactions with power tripping cops to believe that it’s possible that the kid was disrespectful to the wrong guy. Customs agents have wide latitude in determining who can enter, and I could see a situation where an already angry agent saw the Vance thing, got even angrier and said you’re outta here.

[deleted]
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