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Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

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Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#471

Post by throw4573s2 »

stego-tech wrote: post #193

All the bickering about the validity of this specific story and the “if you don’t like it don’t ever leave home to go anywhere ever” misses the crux of the issue that these articles are trying to raise: * Do we agree that a law enforcement arm of any country should be allowed to perform warrantless searches of electronic devices? * Do we find it acceptable that persons with critical views are denied entry to countrie…

> On the flip side, I have serious doubts about my ability to enter authoritarian regimes like China because of my outspoken critique of government policies, regardless of my intentions within their borders.

I’ve posted a lot of pro-Taiwan content and not once have I ever been interrogated at the Chinese borders. Many times they don’t even talk to me.

Unless you are a well-known and famous agitator, I highly doubt they will even care about you.

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#472

Post by surgical_fire »

Y_Y wrote: post #374
surgical_fire wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the current administration, I can think of 14 words that I will refuse to repeat here.

I assume your referring to this > We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words and further that you're intending to use it as a burn on Trump and his government? Regardless of what you think about them and Neo-Nazis/white supremacists, I think it's unfair because the policies of the current administration with regard to war, debt, environmenta…

> I think it's unfair because the policies of the current administration with regard to war, debt, environmentalism etc. evince a total disregard for the futures of children of any colour.

That is due to incompetence, not desire.

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#473

Post by Defenestresque »

bananalychee wrote: post #397
Disposal8433 wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which is something that actually happens in other countries Yes, but it's (IIRC) that it's so blatantly happening in the Land of the Free World where the first amendment of the constitution is touted as the best law ever written in history.

Is it so blatant, or does it just seems like it because of the sheer amount of spin being spun? I can think of a few stories that I think qualify as evidence of overstepping, but I can also think of several from 2021-2024. I don't like it, but none really come close to the level of the UK's speech policing. Reading the comments here you'd think we're worse than China. When it comes to border control, I've looked into…

The first amendment is a good thing overall, but I have honestly never heard of a story of someone attempting to enter the US, someone with no criminal record and from an ally country, just to be forcibly strip-searched at the border.

They just tell you that you they are denying you entry and putting you on the next plane back.

That being said, we are clearly only getting one side of the story and I'd love to know what _exactly_ that found on his phone, but given how consistent the stories have been (pulled into secondary, forced to unlock personal media under threats of imprisonment, strip search, disappearance for a few days or weeks) I am inclined to move this from the "anecdotes" to "anecdata" to something-very-close-to-data category.

If you chose to rebutt this with the "millions of people come in to the US every year with absolutely no problem" I'd like to say that only 0.02 people die by train per 100,000,000 miles travelled. Does that mean I don't want the NTSB to investigate train crashes or that these peoples deaths (and injuries) don't matter because they comprise such a low percentage?*

I am extremely sympathetic to his position of his phone automatically downloading media he is sent. My phone's WhatsApp settings came with "auto-download any images people send you to your (local, on-device) gallery" set as default. I also had Google Photos installed, which had the option of "auto back-up any images/videos you store on your phone to your Google Photos account" which I turned on because I break my phones often. The result was that several relatives with questionable (and opposite) political tastes have their memes (think [pollitician x] next to a [hate symbol]" (got it? Good. It's not the one you're thinking of!) automatically stored on my phone and backed up to my Google Photos account, not even accounting for the automatic WhatsApp backup that is stored on my Google Drive account.

From previous reporting, the agents plug in the device into a forensic analyzer which dumps out a list of images/videos that were saved (note the distinction between "that you saved" and "that were saved") and use it against you.

I can't imagine what it must feel like to arrive here from Norway to go camping and be subject to a strip-search and interrogation because someone you may not even consider a friend sent you some shitty memes a few years ago. Or, in this case, because they found a "anti-JD-vance" meme that even JD vance seems to think is fine?

[0] https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/home-and-community/safety-topics...

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#474

Post by anigbrowl »

School-Cotton wrote: post #331
anigbrowl wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

some nonzero chance I'll be killed in a surprise volcanic eruption Why would you compare an unpredictable natural risk with one stemming from human behavior and government policy? This is like saying speeding limits are a bad idea because some people are killed by lightning.

The point of analogies isn't to claim that the two things being compared are exactly identical, it's to draw attention to the ways in which they're similar that are relevant to the point being discussed. By the way, I never said anything like "power tripping pro-MAGA border guards are okay because there are volcanoes in Iceland", so your lightning vs. speed limits analogy isn't relevant.

Nonsense. Your presence in Iceland or not has no influence on whether a volcano there erupts, whereas a sharp drop in tourism is a market signal that may influence policy in the future (not necessarily under the same administration).

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#475

Post by BergAndCo »

neilv wrote: post #163

> He claims he was then strip-searched, forced to give blood samples, a facial scan and fingerprints. > "Later I was taken back in, and the situation got even worse. I was pushed up against a wall and was strip-searched with a lot of force. They were incredibly harsh and used physical force the whole time," he claimed. > "I felt completely devastated and broke down, and was close to crying several times. I was on the…

[flagged]

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#477

Post by arlort »

anal_reactor wrote: post #183
arlort wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the moral difference is in the motivation and consequences. We take into account motivation pretty often to evaluate morality not sure why you can't apply it here TSA's purpose is prevent harm to other passengers (effectiveness is debatable but not the point), the east German border guards were there to keep control on what information the population could access and share They are not the same thing even if the…

So basically, "when we do it it's good, when they do it it's bad"? I didn't think I'd see someone seriously practice such morality on this website.

Is it moral for an ambulance to cut through traffic, run red lights and break speed limits? Is the same moral for drunk teenagers?

There's no action (and by that I do mean action, not something abstract that involves multiple actions and choices) that won't be moral some times and immoral others. Intent is always to be accounted for. I'd be happy to have counterexamples if you have any in mind

Also pretty weird to see you infuse a sense of moral superiority to this website of all places

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#478

Post by School-Cotton »

anigbrowl wrote: post #474
School-Cotton wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of analogies isn't to claim that the two things being compared are exactly identical, it's to draw attention to the ways in which they're similar that are relevant to the point being discussed. By the way, I never said anything like "power tripping pro-MAGA border guards are okay because there are volcanoes in Iceland", so your lightning vs. speed limits analogy isn't relevant.

Nonsense. Your presence in Iceland or not has no influence on whether a volcano there erupts, whereas a sharp drop in tourism is a market signal that may influence policy in the future (not necessarily under the same administration).

The original post of this subthread:

> Going to the USA as a tourist might be the most stupid action that one can make at this time. Unless you have a dying mother or father, there is absolutely no reason to visit this country. It reminds me of the tourists that used to go to North Korea for fun some years ago, it never was a good idea.

did not claim that one has a moral obligation to avoid the US, but rather tried to claim that it was stupid to do so from a purely rational perspective.

It’s the latter point I disagree with. People who avoid the US due to the possibility of personal harm by border guards are being irrational (unless perhaps they’re prominent pro-Palestinian activists).

I never said there’s no reason not visit the US. Avoiding it as a political protest against the current administration is a perfectly decent reason! But that’s not what was originally claimed.

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#479

Post by tekknik »

gruez wrote: post #417
guappa wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people who are not from USA do not make any distinction between jail and prison. Nitpicking about the precise legal terminology is a bit pointless in this context.

It's not really nitpicking because any sort of pretrial detention is technically "jailed without trial", and pretrial detention isn't some sort of tool only used by fascist regimes. So far as I can tell, he was pulled aside for further questioning and ultimately refused entry, but the authorities didn't go out of their way to detain him for longer than necessary. No, I'm not excusing the government's behavior. Refusi…

Even your definition seems overly broad, as being arrested is pretrial detention and only requires a spoken word from the officer.

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#480

Post by mrtksn »

hayst4ck wrote: post #463
stego-tech wrote: post #193

All the bickering about the validity of this specific story and the “if you don’t like it don’t ever leave home to go anywhere ever” misses the crux of the issue that these articles are trying to raise: * Do we agree that a law enforcement arm of any country should be allowed to perform warrantless searches of electronic devices? * Do we find it acceptable that persons with critical views are denied entry to countrie…

This country was founded on the idea that rights transcend government and that a government cannot grant rights because rights do not come from law, but from human dignity intrinsic to all of us. If rights are derived from human dignity, then a government cannot grant them, it can only protect them. If a government were to grant rights, then they would be privileges and not rights. You can read the American founder's…

what I find puzzling is how come the new administration is moving so fast without resistance? As with US other countries also have some intrinsic understanding of how the government should work and when a government does something against some principle, they are met with huge pressure from the public. People will stop cooperating or start protesting.

It took Erdogan 20 years to dismantle the core of the secular republic for example , arguably he hasn’t finished it.

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