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The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

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Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#321

Post by freedomben »

ImJamal wrote: post #171
texuf wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think it's weird that ethnic groups separated by thousands of years of evolution came up with completely different gods and forms of worship? If there was an omniscient being don't you think it would make itself known in a little more universal fashion? And isn't it strange that the institutions built around our current iteration of God are soft power structures that wield huge amounts of influence both financ…

Have you ever played telephone? Messages get distorted in a couple minutes. Thousands of years is plenty of time to be easily believe that people would deviate on various gods.

This strikes me as a pretty powerful argument against trusting the Bible (and other scripture older than a few hundred years), especially since we have a ton of evidence that distortion is exactly what happened. Even just reconciling the four gospels requires some pretty serious "interpretation."

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#322

Post by rhcom2 »

ryandv wrote: post #253
dragonwriter wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Never heard about Jesus pleading for 'seizing means of production'. This is something he has in common with many of the people that modern dominant (in the US, at least) political groups condemn for "socialism".

Then they should choose not to identify with a word that is defined by "social ownership of the means of production," [0] whose main proponent advocates that there is "only one way, [...] and that way is revolutionary terror." [1] You can't equivocate terms like this, identifying with the more extreme definition but walking it back when pressed. This is active distortion and manipulation of language, and this is far…

There's a history of a more complex definition of socalism than just sticking with the stuff written 150 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#323

Post by guywithahat »

dfxm12 wrote: post #297
guywithahat wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you, presumably someone who is not a christian and has never read the bible, know better than billions of christians and the millions of people who've actually read the bible. I'm not religious, but this is a bad take.

If you ever do get around to reading the new testament, you'll find that Jesus is obviously more of a collectivist than a capitalist. Jesus "radicalized" me. You can try and delay this realization by arguing over the minutiae of what exactly socialism is and if Jesus would agree with Marx on every little thing, but that, and also failing to practice what he preached doesn't change Jesus' obvious message that hoarding…

[flagged]

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#324

Post by chungy »

josephcsible wrote: post #225
dangus wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I strongly encourage you all read this book(the bible) and take it to heart. You aren't my friend, or someone that I know - but it would give me no pleasure at all to know you were spending eternity in hell. IMO, you are also an elitist jerk by telling non-believers that they will be going to hell for not believing your religion, a religion which 69% of the entire world does not believe. What kind of god creates be…

> IMO, you are also an elitist jerk by telling non-believers that they will be going to hell for not believing your religion, a religion which 69% of the entire world does not believe. Catholics don't believe that you have to be Catholic to go to heaven. In fact, believing that you do is explicitly condemned as a heresy (Feeneyism).

That is the same with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We do not believe church membership is required to receive the glories of heaven; we do not even believe that church membership is a guarantee to get there.

As for "going to hell": we believe that everyone goes there after death, as a temporary state. It's akin to the Catholic concept of purgatory, before the resurrection, final judgment, and placement in either outer darkness or the kingdoms of heaven. Thankfully, most people that have ever lived on earth are destined for the latter, not the former.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#325

Post by matthewdgreen »

1-more wrote: post #200
ivape wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind true believers often learn to live with a massive cognitive dissonance This is quite true. Taking away just the moral teachings is not true belief. Revelations is serious business stuff, the apostles watched Christ ascend from Mount Olive, it’s extremely trippy things. True believers are literally believing in wild shit. In fact, if you are true believer, you almost need to keep it hidden because it’s go…

> The closest science has gotten was to actually corroborate that, yes, this was all not infinite and had a starting point (big bang), literally corroborated let there be light. Georges Lemaître, one of the original articulators of the Big Bang was a Catholic priest. He did not appreciate Pope Pius XII characterizing his research as confirming "let there be light." There are many references to criticism he received f…

It is, however, pretty wonderful for the Big-Bang-is-creation view that light comes into existence on the first day, and God doesn't get around to making the sun until day four.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#326

Post by krapp »

CyrsBel wrote: post #305
delfinom wrote: post #64

[flagged]

Jesus was a socialist? Was that before or after he used supernatural powers to increase the quantity of food instantly? Easy to be a "socialist" in such cases, but let's not pretend that there's any serious economic theorizing being done when people say this about Jesus. It's usually just a convenience for people looking to grift or instigate. lmao.

People call Jesus a socialist because of the numerous times he commanded people to distribute their wealth to the poor and needy, help the sick, forgive debts and treat immigrants with respect and dignity.

No one is literally claiming that Jesus was espousing some kind of proto-Marxist economic theory so much as pointing out that in the context of modern (specifically American) political discourse, Jesus would be considered a socialist.

Then again, so would Ronald Reagan and Adam Smith. At this point the Overton window of what constitutes "socialism" has drifted so far that anyone to the left of Ayn Rand might as well be a tankie.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#327

Post by lo_zamoyski »

mullingitover wrote: post #208
klipt wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that how the rich men are squeezing into heaven these days? "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven" There's a theory that the eye of the needle was a narrow gate in Jerusalem's city wall that was notoriously hard for camels to squeeze through. But seems the hard evidence for that is limited.

> There's a theory that the eye of the needle was a narrow gate in Jerusalem's city wall This is a very debunked myth, brought to you by people who are desperate to avoid Christianity's clear proscription on hoarding wealth.

To be clear, it isn’t wealth per se that is taught is evil, but attachment to it and pining for it. The prosperity gospel demonstrates this perverse and unhealthy lust for riches.

Many don’t pay attention to the fuller context.

  And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
The rich only make up a very small percentage of any society, so why would the disciples ask “Who then can be saved?”. They ask, because it isn’t wealth per se, but attachment and greed. The poor and modest in possessions, who made up most of Christ’s disciples, were vulnerable to the very same vice.

Experience confirms this. Look at the aspirations of the poor in our societies. They are often vulgar, base, and materialistic.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#328

Post by ianburrell »

michaelmrose wrote: post #141
victorbjorklund wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not that easy. If we look at historical context we can see that for example in judaism they have this midrash: "The Holy One said, open for me a door as big as a needle's eye and I will open for you a door through which may enter tents and camels." Sounds familiar? The meaning of that saying in jewish context is that we cant really understand Gods abilities. Could the christian saying mean something else? Sure.…

In your example the saying suggests that a Camel going through the eye of a needle is an extraordinary event like a rich person going to heaven in the traditional Christian saying. It is incredibly clear and without nuance nor is there a reason to suppose it's an issue with translation. Its also consistent philosophically nor is it the sort of thing that the powerful would want inserted when they compiled works. If y…

I find it interesting that they attack the camel and needle analogy when the previous line is: "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven." That is a pretty definitive statement and makes it clear that the camel and needle line is metaphor for the difficulty.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#329

Post by freedomben »

somenameforme wrote: post #273
Tijdreiziger wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t think anything is weird anymore. The ultimate reality of free will is that you will always have the option to do right and wrong. If you don’t have faith, this privilege will be difficult. The human left to their own devices will always have a shifting sense of morality (turning a ship by 1 degree at a time). I think this hypothesis is flawed. I think most people in society strive to do right, and therefore…

I'd challenge your position with a simple thought experiment. You're given a device with a button. When you push that button a random person you don't know will be killed. In exchange you'll receive $1 million in completely clean money, and nobody will ever know you pushed the button or how many times you pushed it. So how many times would you push it? Such is our character that asking how many times you'd push it is…

What if you were a Christian, and you knew that the random person being killed was a rock solid Christian who would die painlessly and without even knowing it, and would go immediately into the bosom of Christ?

In that scenario pushing the button seems like the right thing to do. If you don't, that person might lose their faith later and end up in hell, and it would be your fault. What is the worth of a soul? My understanding is it's infinite. If not infinite, certainly it must be worth more than a measly cool million.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#330

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

CyrsBel wrote: post #313
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He revealed himself to them and only them, ignoring the rest of humanity all over the globe. In all the universe he chose just earth for his people, and over all of earth, he just chose a tiny section to reveal himself to. Omniscient and omnipotent but a very human scale for his messaging.

Who said he ignored the rest of humanity? That's not what the record shows. Most people know about God. Who said that in all the universe he chose just earth? You're assuming too much about the motivations. I do not see what the issue is with a "very human scale" for messaging. That's...how you communicate with humans.

> Who said he ignored the rest of humanity?

People now know about god, but they wouldn't have 3,000 years ago. And it's only one particular culture that was being communicated with, or did the Chinese and Native Americans just ignore him when tried to message them?

> I do not see what the issue is with a "very human scale" for messaging. That's...how you communicate with humans.

It's because its messaging seems to have originated from a very small and region specific group of people, instead of, you know, being communicated across the world.

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