Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Another way electric cars clean the air: study says brake dust reduced by 83%

electrek.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 188 posts

Re: Another way electric cars clean the air: study says brake dust reduced by 83%

#111

Post by AnthonyMouse »

piva00 wrote: post #105
JoshTriplett wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I look forward to seeing public transportation that begins a few feet from my front door and arrives a few feet from my destination, without changing vehicles partway through, for arbitrary destinations.

You can take your car if its existence doesn't infringe on everyone else having a nice city where people can walk. For that to happen your convenience of being able to park anywhere close to your final destination will mostly disappear, you will have to find parking in a parking garage, walk up and down stairs (or take an elevator) to get to the street, and walk to your destination. I don't advocate for the extinctio…

The problem is this: If you try to allow a new dense development near the suburbs and make it affordable by not having minimum parking requirements, people object to it. Not because they want to live there and need somewhere to park their car, but because they don't want local housing to be more affordable or to have a bunch of young people with lower incomes move in and want to send their kids your school district. Developers aren't stupid; the reason they're banned from building housing without parking isn't because they were going to build something nobody wanted to buy.

So then that kind of development can't get built, and the bulk of the housing consists of low density suburbs where you need a car, and then everybody drives everywhere. But instead of solving the actual problem, people start trying to come up with ways to make driving worse because they don't like all the cars. Then it's actually the drivers who object, because you're trying to suppress the thing they're forced to do without letting them do the thing that allows them to avoid it.

Re: Another way electric cars clean the air: study says brake dust reduced by 83%

#112

Post by scuderiaseb »

ChiefNotAClue wrote: post #4

To those wondering about tire wear: "Despite the slightly higher levels of tire wear from EVs, brake dust was found to be more unhealthy, as brake dust is much more likely to become airborne (>40%) than tire wear is (1-5%). So EVs create a lot less of the worse thing, and a little more of the less-bad thing."

So putting this aside, the elephant in the room is still the weight of the EVs, tire wear is one thing but the roads are also being worn at a much faster rate due to the weight of the cars. When EVs do have to brake and regenerative is not enough it needs to stop more inertia due to this high weight.

Re: Another way electric cars clean the air: study says brake dust reduced by 83%

#113

Post by trklausss »

Schiendelman wrote: post #100
trklausss wrote: post #91

As a driver of a diesel car: Sure thing. But driving style is what is behind this result. With electric cars, your "engine" (motor) brakes for you. This is something that already happens in ICEs though: you can just let the car roll, don't drive in a rush etc. However, everyone is in a rush: illegally overtaking, tailgating, honking... The conditions and social behavior on the road push for inefficiencies.

EVs (or many of them) teach you this behavior - because you get regeneration back into the battery, there's a little incentive to taking your foot off the accelerator earlier and letting the car recover energy. There's a reason people are talking about this for electric vehicles and not for anything else.

Yes, but you can do that with an ICE too. I achieve 60mpg//4l/100km with my diesel, also with highway driving. It's doable, but if you let your car roll for a red light, everyone is pissed at you.

The main difference is as you say: EVs brake way more when you are not pressing the throttle, before even needing to touch the brakes. It also helps with mileage.

Re: Another way electric cars clean the air: study says brake dust reduced by 83%

#114

Post by chneu »

jimbob45 wrote: post #51
chneu wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

A lot of people need trucks for their work. Hispanics in gardening and construction in particular.

Something like 75% of trucks in the US will never be used for truck things.

The reality is Americans don't need giant vehicles (SUVs included). But we convince ourselves we're sssppeeecciiiaall.

Other countries do it no problem. Go travel then pay attention to how many giant American vehicles you see. I'll spoil it for ya: you'll hardly see them.

The reality is Americans have an insane ego problem that the rest of the world pays for. The vast majority of Americans do not need anything more than a small sized car. But again, Americans think we're ssspppeeccciiiaaal when we're really just selfish and loaded with excuses.

Also, nice racism? Jeez.

Re: Another way electric cars clean the air: study says brake dust reduced by 83%

#115

Post by tpm »

scuderiaseb wrote: post #112
ChiefNotAClue wrote: post #4

To those wondering about tire wear: "Despite the slightly higher levels of tire wear from EVs, brake dust was found to be more unhealthy, as brake dust is much more likely to become airborne (>40%) than tire wear is (1-5%). So EVs create a lot less of the worse thing, and a little more of the less-bad thing."

So putting this aside, the elephant in the room is still the weight of the EVs, tire wear is one thing but the roads are also being worn at a much faster rate due to the weight of the cars. When EVs do have to brake and regenerative is not enough it needs to stop more inertia due to this high weight.

> the roads are also being worn at a much faster rate due to the weight of the cars.

Are they actually being worn out at a much faster rate because of more EVs? Do we have any data?

Re: Another way electric cars clean the air: study says brake dust reduced by 83%

#116

Post by llampx »

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #25
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #2

I'm glad that they address the increased tyre wear pollution. I'm not entirely(!) convinced that EVs only have slightly increased wear as there seems to be plenty of reports of EVs going through tyres a lot quicker though estimates do seem to vary from about 30% to 50% more wear. (Also great that the report mentions the importance of walking/cycling for city transport)

Please stop it with the tyre nonsense. The world is burning. Hundreds of millions people are going to die. We have a solution… and you won’t let us use it because it increases the rubber levels in people who lick tyres. As if that matters. So what if there are more rubber particles in their mouths? We can eliminate vehicle pollution!

Exactly. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

Re: Another way electric cars clean the air: study says brake dust reduced by 83%

#117

Post by freetonik »

Many people complained when VW "dared" to use drum brakes in the rear of ID.3, but it's a good idea, I think. Drum brakes do not pollute (as much), are cheaper, and easier to maintain. In the front, there are still regular disk brakes, and together with regen (recuperation), the overall use of polluting disk brakes is minimized. I'd be curious to see how much brake dust pollution is produced on average in this setup, compared to a regular ICE car with 4 disk brakes and no regen.

Re: Another way electric cars clean the air: study says brake dust reduced by 83%

#118

Post by llampx »

yourusername wrote: post #60
MagicMoonlight wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop it with the tyre nonsense. The world is burning. Hundreds of millions people are going to die. We have a solution… and you won’t let us use it because it increases the rubber levels in people who lick tyres. As if that matters. So what if there are more rubber particles in their mouths? We can eliminate vehicle pollution!

Rubber particles from tires are one of the main sources of microplastics.

The tires that are "disposed of" in the third world and then burnt?

Re: Another way electric cars clean the air: study says brake dust reduced by 83%

#119

Post by llampx »

tpm wrote: post #115
scuderiaseb wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So putting this aside, the elephant in the room is still the weight of the EVs, tire wear is one thing but the roads are also being worn at a much faster rate due to the weight of the cars. When EVs do have to brake and regenerative is not enough it needs to stop more inertia due to this high weight.

> the roads are also being worn at a much faster rate due to the weight of the cars. Are they actually being worn out at a much faster rate because of more EVs? Do we have any data?

It is amazing how much concern trolling there is about EVs on a site like this.

Re: Another way electric cars clean the air: study says brake dust reduced by 83%

#120

Post by chneu »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #104
alpaca128 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has plenty of gardeners and construction projects too, but I see at most one pickup truck per decade and it is always someone who definitely doesn’t need one and drives like they’re in a mad max movie. If you think all truck owners actually need one, count how many of the ones you see are carrying some load and do the math.

> If you think all truck owners actually need one, count how many of the ones you see are carrying some load and do the math. Okay, let's do the math. Suppose you need a truck once a week and it costs $100 to rent one. To rent one would then be $400/mo, which you haven't got. You could buy both a truck and a car and only use the truck once a week, but between payment and insurance then that's again several hundred a…

You forgot cost of fuel(this alone likely offsets your imaginary rental cost), higher insurance rates for trucks(they kill people in routine accidents), cost of extra tires(trucks eat through tires), and higher cost of ownership in general. If you're using a truck as a work truck it'll also need to be replaced much quicker, adding to the overall cost.

Trucks are expensive for the owner and society.

Also, the majority of trucks in the US never do truck things. Like 75% are urban grocery getters. Americans have a serious consumption/ego/entitlement problem. Trucks are a great example of that problem. Instead of just saying, "I like truck. I want truck. I don't care it bad", people make up imaginary math that doesn't make sense instead of just admitting it's an ego thing.

The sad part of all this is the world laughs at the US over this stuff. We're a laughing stock and the people embarrassing us are proud of it. It's so shameful.

"I'm not that kind of American" has become a routine thing to say while traveling abroad.

Post reply on HN