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Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#231

Post by pfdietz »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #72
pfdietz wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The total fertility rate (number of children per woman) seems stubborn against attempts to raise it. I suggest instead altering the male/female ratio, so a stable or growing population can be maintained at lower TFR. Technically, filter sperm to remove those with Y chromosomes before artificial insemination.

As Jan and Dean put it in Surf City: "two girls for every boy".

Or more. The prevalence of males seems to be an unfortunate consequence of evolution. There's an evolutionary equilibrium of nearly an equal chance of a male or female offspring, even though the ability of the species to reproduce would be higher with mostly female offspring.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#232

Post by jopsen »

jt2190 wrote: post #208

So this means that eventually Danes will not be able to draw from their government pensions until the age of seventy? Is there a mechanism where people can stop working before age seventy if they save privately?

Denmark has both private and public pension schemes.

Well, I guess you're not required to have a private pension scheme. But most jobs come with one, most unions enforce it.

I had one when I was sweeping the factory floor once a week at age 15 -- that was ridiculously because it all disappeared into administration fees.

But the answer is yes, of course you can. It's a free country -- assuming we're not annexed by the orange monkey.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#233

Post by bgnn »

lancekey wrote: post #77
dtgm92 wrote: post #9

This is because of their low birth rate primarily right? I think the system has failed at this point, when you are expected to work that long.

But people are living longer, in better health (I think but didn’t verify with data) and entering the workforce later (due to more secondary schooling). Setting aside the issues of declining birth rate for a minute, this seems like a reasonable adjustment to the other factors?

True but no matter how healthy one is in their 60s and 70s people's health degrade significantly in their 80s. So, you have then 10 year of healthy life after retirement.

There's the flip side if the coin though: old people are healthier in Denmark (vs US for example [1]) due to the social welfare system. Well, that system needs to be funded. With the aging population, the costs are rising but contributions are (relatively) declining. That's why there's a push for higher retirement age. It's either this, or defunding the social welfare programs, or immigration. That last one isn't a viable political option in Denmark at the moment.

[1] https://www.euronews.com/health/2025/02/05/older-people-are-...

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#234

Post by waldrews »

dsign wrote: post #206

There is an obvious solution to the problem of ageing population and declining birth rates. Furthermore, it's a solution everybody's secret soul wants very much: keep people younger for longer. Invent rejuvenation. But politicians would never dare go in front of cameras and say that they will put a dollar into R&D for such an outcome, because the wall of insults and disdain we would hurl, for no rational reason, at t…

And while we're at it, can we do teleportation too? Think of all the parking hassles, the car accidents, the carbon emissions we could save! And yet, just try to convince those funding agencies...

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#235

Post by Spivak »

arrowsmith wrote: post #164
grunder_advice wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mormons and Amish have above replacement fertility rates. Millionaires in western countries also have above replacement fertility rates. To me it seems rather obvious: you need both the will and the means to raise 3+ children.

I’m not sure it’s about having the “means”, since birth rates were far higher in the past when everybody was much poorer.

You can solve the means problem by making everyone wealthier or by lowering everyone's expectations. The problem is that "how much it costs to raise children" is dependent on your environment. One group's normal is another's neglectful parenting.

The catch-22 is that the people you presumably want to be having more children— educated working professionals— have some of the highest social standards for child rearing.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#236

Post by vladms »

harimau777 wrote: post #182
lancekey wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But people are living longer, in better health (I think but didn’t verify with data) and entering the workforce later (due to more secondary schooling). Setting aside the issues of declining birth rate for a minute, this seems like a reasonable adjustment to the other factors?

Personally, I'm not sure that they are living in better health in the way that I care about. I.e. my goal is to retire when I'm still healthy enough to do things (i.e. travel). Although they are likely healthier than previous generations, most of the 70 years olds I see still aren't healthy enough to travel.

Average healthy life years was 71 years in Denmark (source: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/healthy-life-expectancy-a... ). By looking at the map it varies a lot between countries, and I assume between regions and occupations.

The policy for retirement age is related to when society sees fit to sustain someone that does not work. I think it has more to do with how the society sees the elders and what it can afford than to the goals of specific individuals.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#237

Post by alexey-salmin »

jampekka wrote: post #119

It's utterly insane that people need to work more and longer as technology increases productivity. A truly dystopian economic system. In 1930 Keynes projected that by 2000 their grandchildren could work 15 hours per week¹. Now the projection is that we will work more and longer in the future. And what is this labor supposed to even do? How much of even current work really increases wellbeing? Graeber's thesis of bull…

It's not insane if you consider that people neglect to raise the next generation to fund their retirement. Fund in the real sense: by doing work and ceding part of the yield to people who retired from work but keep consuming.

Whatever people save for retirement, cash or stocks or points, it only facilitates the said exchange, it doesn't somehow replace or alleviate it. It only works if the next generation exists and is prosperous enough to share their income.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#238

Post by martin-t »

dsign wrote: post #206

There is an obvious solution to the problem of ageing population and declining birth rates. Furthermore, it's a solution everybody's secret soul wants very much: keep people younger for longer. Invent rejuvenation. But politicians would never dare go in front of cameras and say that they will put a dollar into R&D for such an outcome, because the wall of insults and disdain we would hurl, for no rational reason, at t…

It might be the obvious solution but is it the right one?

People are significantly more productive than say 50 years ago due to technological advancement. So where is all the money going?

I am no economist but it is my understanding that all this extra money goes to the rich because they've entrenched themselves in positions where they can extract a portion of a person's income with no recourse.

It's not normal that a single person can legally own tens of apartments and get a third or each tenant's salary without providing any value to society. It's not normal that companies can own residential properties, they have no use for them other than extracting money from people.

I recall danluu blogging about how multiple times he made code fixes that saved the company more than his salary just in electricity. What I see is an incredible technical achievement but also I see how he's being exploited - the money saved is value he directly provided to society, yet he sees none of it. Where does it go? To people who are already rich.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#239

Post by coldtea »

aaomidi wrote: post #142
bombcar wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are quite a few highly paid professions where the main purpose of that profession’s union seems to be to prevent there being an adequate supply of the professionals.

Is that what’s happening here?

no, but why not waste an opportunity for Reagan-era style anti-union drivel?
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