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Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#21

Post by tossandthrow »

namdnay wrote: post #19
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The social pension system always was a Ponzi scheme where the ones who got in first(boomers) get the biggest share of the pie(10-20 years of life left after retirement), while those coming into the system last(millennials+) and pay for the current retirees will get rug-pulled(5-10 years of life left after retirement). Sustainable population and economic growth at that rate can't happen indefinitely. Some people have…

The boomers definitely weren’t the first getting in, the original pensions were paid to their own parents It’s not really a Ponzi scheme, it is completely possible for the system to be balanced, it’s just very very hard to get people to vote for you if you say they’ll have less tomorrow

> It’s not really a Ponzi scheme, it is completely possible for the system to be balanced, it’s just very very hard to get people to vote for you if you say they’ll have less tomorrow

This is exactly what happens in Denmark - a balancing of the pension system.

Also,rgis has been planned since 2006 - so it is nothing new.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#22

Post by mrcwinn »

deanc wrote: post #4

I’m not sure how I feel about this. I’m based in the Nordics and my estimated retirement age at the moment (where I can get my state pension) is 67y 4m. Whilst I understand the burden the aging population is having on society (lifespan) it doesn’t seem like there’s much proactive government input into people’s healthspan. Maybe instead we should try investing in this area (reducing the burden on services) instead of…

As an American, I’m often that countries like Denmark are in fact constantly investing in health and entitlements, and so everyone is healthier and happier. Is that not the case?

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#23

Post by CubsFan1060 »

tossandthrow wrote: post #11
dtgm92 wrote: post #9

This is because of their low birth rate primarily right? I think the system has failed at this point, when you are expected to work that long.

It is. And this is the case in all western countries. It is just being realized in different ways. Fundamentalle there are 3 ways to cope 1. reduce pensions 2. Raise taxes 3. Decrease amount of benefit receivers. Denmark choose number 3

Wouldn't the fourth way be via increasing either birth rate or immigration?

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#24

Post by littlestymaar »

tossandthrow wrote: post #11
dtgm92 wrote: post #9

This is because of their low birth rate primarily right? I think the system has failed at this point, when you are expected to work that long.

It is. And this is the case in all western countries. It is just being realized in different ways. Fundamentalle there are 3 ways to cope 1. reduce pensions 2. Raise taxes 3. Decrease amount of benefit receivers. Denmark choose number 3

You are missing the most important one:

- increase productivity more than how much the workforce/receivers grow.

And if AI/robots eventually deliver, we're soon going to need a discussion about lowering the retirement age to 55 or even 50 if we don't want 30% unemployment anyway.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#26

Post by namdnay »

tossandthrow wrote: post #21
namdnay wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The boomers definitely weren’t the first getting in, the original pensions were paid to their own parents It’s not really a Ponzi scheme, it is completely possible for the system to be balanced, it’s just very very hard to get people to vote for you if you say they’ll have less tomorrow

> It’s not really a Ponzi scheme, it is completely possible for the system to be balanced, it’s just very very hard to get people to vote for you if you say they’ll have less tomorrow This is exactly what happens in Denmark - a balancing of the pension system. Also,rgis has been planned since 2006 - so it is nothing new.

A real balancing would entail cutting pensions for existing pensioners. Which is electoral suicide. So what you always end up doing is shafting future pensioners, either by pushing back the retirement age, or by doing nothing and waiting for it to explode

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#27

Post by namdnay »

tossandthrow wrote: post #20
namdnay wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trap is the worse the imbalance gets, the harder (1) gets electorally

Number 1 is likely the outcome of passivity - inflation will eat away the value of the pension.

In many countries pensions are indexed on inflation… so there is no natural erosion unfortunately

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#28

Post by constantcrying »

dtgm92 wrote: post #9

This is because of their low birth rate primarily right? I think the system has failed at this point, when you are expected to work that long.

No. It is about how the system is funded.

If pensions were funded by actual retirement accounts, where employees invested money into some state fund and have it paid out for retirement this would be entirely unproblematic.

But the pension system in many EU countries is set up in a way in which tax contributions now finance pensions now. This can only work with a steadily growing economy which continually generates more revenue when more people retire. In some sense it is a literal Pyramid scheme, in which the obligations are continually pushed to younger generations, which have to contribute based on how many pensioners there are.

Especially now as EU economies become weaker this issue becomes bigger and bigger.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#29

Post by lnsru »

It's obvious, that there is no pension in Europe in 20 years anyway. Demographics are super ugly everywhere. Investing individually is the single way, that works if one does not want to retire in under the bridge. Sadly Germany does not help me caring about my retirement taking 18.6% away and heavily taxing the rest.

Re: Denmark to raise retirement age to 70

#30

Post by lostlogin »

tossandthrow wrote: post #11
dtgm92 wrote: post #9

This is because of their low birth rate primarily right? I think the system has failed at this point, when you are expected to work that long.

It is. And this is the case in all western countries. It is just being realized in different ways. Fundamentalle there are 3 ways to cope 1. reduce pensions 2. Raise taxes 3. Decrease amount of benefit receivers. Denmark choose number 3

2 has some options. Increase the number of (young) immigrants. Increase the birthrate (has anywhere managed this?).
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