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Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

nytimes.com

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Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#391

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It's hard for me to see this as anything more than "they resisted Trump, that pissed him off and now he's further retaliating." Side question I've been wrestling with to whoever feels like commenting: At what point would you look at our current US situation and say "yep, we're now in a dictatorship"

Dictatorships require at least some sort of state monopoly on violence. That's how power ultimately works. As of now there's no way for the state to enact such a monopoly in the US.

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Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#392

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My point is, this was the advertisement. If you thought it looked great, you signed up for it. And if you didn't vote for this, but you voted for something ridiculous like banning around dozen people from playing sports, well, I have the same amount of sympathy for you too.

Yes and no. It seems obvious it was the advertisement but I know people who voted for Trump that are otherwise fairly liberal. They were either grossly uninformed, misinformed, or simply _didn't believe_ the reporting about various issues. The last is the most frustrating to me because there is a hint of the truth there - the stuff reported about Trump _is_ insane. They're doing things so openly and brazenly that the…

Dude's last major act was to turn a mob loose on Congress in order to get SCOTUS to repeat 2000. It wasn't obscure news.

Anyone pikachufacing here is a liar.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#393

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Your hatred is clouding your judgement. It is very clear that the issue of the protests is being used by an American government to pursue a much broader agenda. Israel and antisemitism are merely the most convenient instrument. But since you are trapped in (charitably) a prejudicial mind bubble you can only see this as further proof of a tiny group of people somehow controlling everything...

There's nothing antisemitc about criticizing Netanyahu's government. I was a big supporter of Israel's right to take the fight to Hamas for a while after Oct 7th, but then it just kept going and going until it became inhumane. At some point it becomes about punishing Gazans just for living there. That's incredibly disproportionate.

At any rate, American students should have the right to protest anything. Free speech and what have you.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#394
post #228

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What is the better path forward? Republican voters led by their representative Trump were unhappy about certain policies and events at Ivy league institutions. Voters have the right to feel this way and elect representatives to carry out their views even if this is not how you feel as a feature of democracy. Proxies of the representatives of the voters reached out to a few institutions requesting changes to be made o…

Please. They don’t care about higher education. These aren’t old-school white shoe Republicans. These are the people teaching the “truth” about the 2020 election in Oklahoma public schools. If our schools have lost any edge, it’s since Trump came back to power.

I am one of "them" and I care deeply about higher education which is why I am very sad that we could not achieve reform without resorting to measures such as threatening the international student admission process. I don't know anything about the people teaching the “truth” about the 2020 election in Oklahoma public schools but if this is happening I agree with you it is very wrong.

"If our schools have lost any edge, it’s since Trump came back to power." I completely 100% disagree with this statement. My partner is an education at a University and remote learning had a huge negative impact on our schools and student outcomes. US academic achievement has been flat for decades despite spending and pupil rations going way up https://nces.ed.gov/pubs93/93442.pdf. Public schools in certain areas of the country are a complete failure for every student enrolled https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/at-13-baltim... (I choose an example of a left leaning area but obviously there are right leaning examples as well!)

Let me propose what I see as a couple of common sense reforms. Mandate the availability of pre-k nationwide starting at 4. Increase the school year from 180 days to 195 days by reducing the length of summer. If needed make this optional at first. Allow professors to fail students who have not learned the course material and make it illegal for the department to pressure professors to offer the students a way to pass the course.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#395
post #367
post #355

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Can multiple things not be true at the same time? Or is it one of those "our" billionaires type of thing?

No it's the fact that it's the exact same phenomenon of a rich club getting their way it just happens to be another rich club. There's nothing to celebrate here as you did in your previous comment.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#396

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Private schools can create and enforce their own rules how they wish. The United States government is forbidden from creating or enforcing rules on content of speech. It's actually only a 1st Amendment question in one case and not the other. Looks like they tricked ya though! (Technically it's a 1st Amendment question in both cases in that private entities have a 1st Amendment right to create rules for their own camp…

In regards to protest though, the activity they are interested in, that is a right of 'the people to peaceably assemble' per 1A.

Non-immigrants are not 'the people' per current interpretation of the constitution. If they were people, they would have all the rights ascribed to 'the people' including right to bear arms. Non immigrants do not have a right to bear arms, thus it cannot logically follow they are [the] people.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#397
post #103

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Lots and lots of people accurately predicted this multiple years out at this point. They were continually dismissed as alarmists by supposedly “serious people”.

~raises hand~ Been there, Done that... (Been ridiculed for it. Still get ridiculed for pointing out the current reality of it, with or without the additional "I told you so!" included.)

There is something I think that a lot of people find very self soothing by just refusing to see what is actually in front of them so that they don’t have to actually do anything about it. There is a certain satisfaction that people get by telling others they are overreacting.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#398
post #216

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It's more of an ethical question. Were the people who voted for Hitler bad people because they voted for a bad person? I'd argue that they were. You can't just vote for a horrible person and then say you had nothing to do with the consequences. I'm not the one you replied to, but I assume this is something family related, a la "just because grandpa voted for Trump doesn't mean he's a bad person".

People didn't have good choices. There was plenty to not like about the Democrats as well. You can argue who is worse, or even if the concerns are valid, but there are plenty of things many people don't like about how the democrats use their power. As such what was a voter to do? There are a long list of things, and most people are not willing accept that "their side" does anything someone else might not like. Doesn'…

This is not a "both sides are bad" issue. Literally one side was openly advertising a culture revolution and remaking the US into a fascist state and the other side was using policies to improve minority participation in institutions. Even if you were completely opposed to "woke" issues, the alternative was voting for a dictator.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#399
post #30

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Maybe, but I doubt it. Trump is not a mafia boss - time after time he showed that his words cannot be trusted. If Harvard makes a concession, there's no guarantee that Trump will "forgive" it. Look how China is dealing with Trump. Trump announces tariffs, China returns Boeing planes, tariffs somehow comes down.

> Trump is not a mafia boss - time after time he showed that his words cannot be trusted. If Harvard makes a concession, there's no guarantee that Trump will "forgive" it. > Look how China is dealing with Trump. Trump announces tariffs, China returns Boeing planes, tariffs somehow comes down. Doesn't this example make the opposite of your point?

The point I'm trying to make is: if Trump bullies you, and you make a concession, Trump will feel no obligations to pay you back and may bully you further. China played hardball (up to some degree - I'm sure there were backstage talks), and that apparently made Trump "respect" China more.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#400
post #122

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He will already have serves his second (and therefore last) term, or what do you mean?

Probably this: https://www.trumpstore.com/product/trump-2028-hat/

Huh, that page actually seems to admit that the third term is not valid:

> Rewrite the rules with the Trump 2028 high crown hat.

Or perhaps I misunderstand what they mean with "rewrite the rules".

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