Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out • Hacker News Board

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#151

Post by BobaFloutist » Thu, May 22, 2025, 4:42 PM UTC

butterlettuce wrote: post #120

hedora wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t look to the white house for solutions. Instead of discouraging offshoring, they’re threatening the physical safety of highly skilled foreigners. Those people have been the glue that holds the US economy together since, what, WWII? If the US is no longer an attractive destination, they’ll set up shop overseas. Fast forward ten years, and the jobs they create will definitely not be in the US. Concretely: Sil…

All that needs to change. The glue to the US economy needs to be Americans. We have the best universities in the world but we decide to invest in foreign students instead of our own for wage reasons.

Foreign born immigrants are Americans. That's, like, foundational to how this country works. It's our competitive advantage.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#152

Post by tpm » Thu, May 22, 2025, 4:49 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #139

const_cast wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would describe a poor office environment as an open one. Cubicles are much better, and offices a little better than that. These are not just unproductive environments, they're unpleasant. Having to be "on" for 8 hours a day because you don't even get a vague idea of privacy is exhausting.

Have you ever worked in a factory or restaurant or construction job site? I understand that some office environments aren't great for knowledge work but complaints about poor working conditions are a bit overblown.

A bit overblown? I literally could not do my work in the working environment I was supposed to (open space) because of the constant noise from coworkers. That was at a time when ANC technology wasn't very good and I left for this and other reasons.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#153

Post by red-iron-pine » Thu, May 22, 2025, 4:52 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #106

michaelmrose wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should they do then?

Government funded schools with lower tuition (possibly even community college), more rigorous degrees with higher likelihoods of stable pay (e.g. medical/engineering), trade schools/apprenticeships.

> more rigorous degrees with higher likelihoods of stable pay (e.g. medical/engineering)

this is the dumbest thing ever. first off, they already chased degrees that paid better -- they went STEM.

secondly, things change a lot in 4 years. the 2020 college freshman is now getting screwed for choosing STEM right now, today. 4 years ago it was a good choice, 2 years ago it was shaky, and now it's a mess.

medicine is also certainly not a solution, as programs are extremely competitive and take 8+ years to complete from undergrad through residency. and not all medical fields are magically lucrative or in demand.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#154

Post by OutOfHere » Thu, May 22, 2025, 4:55 PM UTC

BuckRogers wrote: post #80

The answer to this is easy. Rewind time and put a 200K minimum salary on visa talent, and ban products sold here to utilize overseas employees. Sell it here, you build it here. Then you have all the jobs you need and more. To fix it today, you do the same thing. But you'd have to also cancel all the visas, and invalidate citizenship that was founded on fraud. Not much more to this story, if your concern is having job…

Invalidating citizenship is always a bad idea. Once it begins, it will lead to civil war. Once citizenship is granted, there is no reverting it.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#155

Post by belter » Thu, May 22, 2025, 4:59 PM UTC

labadal wrote: post #140

belter wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not offshoring as much as people think. If you look at statistics for typical IT offshoring and near shoring markets like India, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria they have been in crisis since 2022. Only to show a slight rebound in Q1 of 2025.

Can you point me towards some stats for these please? Are you looking at consultancy type companies or subsidiaries that hire locally?

Here are some data points specific on IT. Back from 2023 until more recently, although as I said there is an uptick for 2025. For general statistics I like: https://tradingeconomics.com/

"India's outsourcing giants cut hiring; disheartening for economy, students" - https://www.reuters.com/world/india/indias-outsourcing-giant...

"India's IT services companies to report subdued growth during 4QFY25"

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/information-tech/i...

Poland:

"..The sector's share of Polish GDP and the value of exports per employee increased significantly despite the fact that at the same time the growth rate of employment slowed down. And while these changes were anticipated, this is a new situation. Until now, all three indicators have been correlated quite strongly.." - https://absl.pl/en/news/p/new-phase-growth-modern-business-s...

Romania:

"Romania’s tech sector faces headwinds as global IT slows" - https://news.outsourceaccelerator.com/romania-tech-sector-he...

Bulgaria:

"Bulgarian IT Sector Is Facing a Turbulent Period" - https://scoolmedia.com/en/bulgarian-it-sector-is-facing-a-tu...

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#156

Post by BuckRogers » Thu, May 22, 2025, 5:29 PM UTC

OutOfHere wrote: post #154

BuckRogers wrote: post #80

The answer to this is easy. Rewind time and put a 200K minimum salary on visa talent, and ban products sold here to utilize overseas employees. Sell it here, you build it here. Then you have all the jobs you need and more. To fix it today, you do the same thing. But you'd have to also cancel all the visas, and invalidate citizenship that was founded on fraud. Not much more to this story, if your concern is having job…

Invalidating citizenship is always a bad idea. Once it begins, it will lead to civil war. Once citizenship is granted, there is no reverting it.

Denaturalization has always been done and nothing new. The US government can revoke citizenship for those who obtained it fraudulently. This can happen if an individual made false statements or concealed material facts during the naturalization process. The government must prove "clear, convincing, and unequivocal evidence" of fraud to succeed in a denaturalization case. I'd expect more of this going forward.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#157

Post by frankbreetz » Thu, May 22, 2025, 5:35 PM UTC

satvikpendem wrote: post #55

Most of this is not occurring due to AI or offshoring, that's just what's told to investors. In reality, it's the macroeconomic climate that has shifted since a few years ago, namely Section 174 changes for amortization of R&D expenditures, overhiring during covid, and higher Fed rates.

From what I understand this provision is potentially being temporally re-added in the "Big Beautiful Bill"

https://www.crowell.com/en/insights/client-alerts/house-comm...

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#158

Post by OutOfHere » Thu, May 22, 2025, 5:36 PM UTC

BuckRogers wrote: post #156

OutOfHere wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Invalidating citizenship is always a bad idea. Once it begins, it will lead to civil war. Once citizenship is granted, there is no reverting it.

Denaturalization has always been done and nothing new. The US government can revoke citizenship for those who obtained it fraudulently. This can happen if an individual made false statements or concealed material facts during the naturalization process. The government must prove "clear, convincing, and unequivocal evidence" of fraud to succeed in a denaturalization case. I'd expect more of this going forward.

And what does this have to do with a visa worker? Nothing. It's the government that allow lax policies for work visas. The fault here is not the worker's.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#159

Post by JohnFen » Thu, May 22, 2025, 5:46 PM UTC

tpm wrote: post #152

nradov wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever worked in a factory or restaurant or construction job site? I understand that some office environments aren't great for knowledge work but complaints about poor working conditions are a bit overblown.

A bit overblown? I literally could not do my work in the working environment I was supposed to (open space) because of the constant noise from coworkers. That was at a time when ANC technology wasn't very good and I left for this and other reasons.

This. I quit a very high-paying job at a very well-known tech company because they shifted to an open office environment. It was not only exceedingly unpleasant, but it eliminated my ability to work.

Re: Sorry, grads: Entry-level tech jobs are getting wiped out

#160

Post by [deleted] » Thu, May 22, 2025, 5:48 PM UTC

3thr0waway wrote: post #87

paularmstrong wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High paying jobs? yes. Good jobs? no. The organizations are typically dysfunctional and all of the things that the original comment here lead to really poor working environments and burnout.

Isn't that a lot better than really poor working environments, burnout, AND low pay?

[deleted]