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Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

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Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#281

Post by alistairSH »

const_cast wrote: post #252
pnw wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a huge assumption. Cars had cell connectivity long before smartphones showed up. Onstar predates the iPhone by a decade.

I don't think it's a huge assumption. It was in the past, but not anymore. The thing is that car manufacturers have been fucking up software in cars since... forever. The second car play and android auto hit the scene, that's all anyone wanted. There's more benefits than just what's on the surface, too. Even if the car software is perfect, it doesn't have access to the same data your phone does. It won't put your con…

The only problem with CarPlay (and presumably AA) is lack of integration with the car…

Changing lock, light, and anudio (bass/treble/sub/fade) options. Map integration with fuel capacity (they only recently do this for EVs). Checking service intervals, recalls, etc.

If CarPlay had APIs/toolkit to serve those functions, it could 100% replace the UI that the manufacturer delivers (and nobody likes).

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#282

Post by DidYaWipe »

archon wrote: post #135
lttlrck wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slate have done this and it's really quite compelling. You even get window winders. https://www.slate.auto/en/personalization

"Have done this" implies Slate has delivered even one vehicle. They have not. I hope Slate succeeds, but let's not get caught up in the preorder hype.

Yeah. Alpha "Motor" has been breathlessly hyping renders for years now, while declaring that their nonexistent vehicles have won all kinds of awards.

Oh, and every year there's "only three days left to invest!"

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#283

Post by tashoecraft »

averageRoyalty wrote: post #213
acheron9383 wrote: post #199

As someone who works professionally on embedded software devices that update over the internet, car companies are stuck not because they can't get software talent, but because they have no ability to actually build the electronics alongside the software, which is ultimately what constrains embedded software. Without the right hardware, the constraints are just insurmountable, you can not do X feature because board A…

I understand the concept, but the question I have is why? These companies have huge wallets, and can surely scoop up a smaller automative microcontroller company and bring it in-house? It seems like a problem than enough money could solve quickly, but they've been doing horribly at this for decades now.

How many issues due large companies run into thinking they can just throw money at it? Just look at google and stadia, or amazon and their failed game studio. They have immense money and knowledge and ended up with nothing.

Each car has dozens to 100+ ecus, written in different languages, by different teams, different requirements, and different companies. Some are proprietary. Ford can’t just tell Bosch, hey your abs module needs to now integrate with our api, multiplied by 100+ companies. The legacy car makers need to revisit everything, and move most of it in-house.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#284

Post by nickff »

hedora wrote: post #248
deergomoo wrote: post #231

I want a 7-10” central display that spends 99% of its time showing CarPlay but also has a radio if I need it, the backup camera when I’m in reverse, and lets me change a couple of settings for convenience features like auto locking etc. Everything else can be dials, knobs, and buttons. My Mazda3 is perfect for this and I’m quite sad that I’m almost certainly not going to be able to find anything like it by the time I…

Look at aftermarket MMI boxes. They do this for $150. (Screen and controls not included because they use the factory ones.) Someone should tell an automobile manufacturer. It’d save them ~ $1B.

Car companies have to worry about regulatory compliance, certification, approvals, as well as warranties; aftermarket manufacturers do not have such concerns (at least to the same degree).

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#285

Post by AlotOfReading »

typewithrhythm wrote: post #272
trueismywork wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only have to develop those interfaces once for high end cars and get your money there. Rest is then just one of the small modifications.

Not at all, a high end car will use an entirely different architecture to a mid/low end... When you target a certain feature set it can make sense to use one big central processor, for lower end things it's more sensible to use limited smart sensors (from multiple vendors, for absolute cost minimums). And it's generally not cost effective to move an old high trim platform down range due to changes in hardware and reg…

What you mean by different architecture here? I've never seen a situation where manufacturers choose fundamentally different architectures between price points on the same platform. I feel like I'm misunderstanding what you mean though.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#286

Post by rapfaria »

omega3 wrote: post #235
acheron9383 wrote: post #199

As someone who works professionally on embedded software devices that update over the internet, car companies are stuck not because they can't get software talent, but because they have no ability to actually build the electronics alongside the software, which is ultimately what constrains embedded software. Without the right hardware, the constraints are just insurmountable, you can not do X feature because board A…

> But you can not just roll all your own electronics in a year. Why? A year is a long time and it's a solved problem. In any case even if you allow the "a year is not enough" argument why didn't they start 5 years ago?

When I was working at $samsung_competitor, my NDA'd next gen android phone prototypes (a huge motherboard with a screen) were sent some years earlier. Like Samsung is on S25 now, and we would get boards for S27... It takes a long time for these things to evolve.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#287

Post by tharkun__ »

neild wrote: post #258
deergomoo wrote: post #231

I want a 7-10” central display that spends 99% of its time showing CarPlay but also has a radio if I need it, the backup camera when I’m in reverse, and lets me change a couple of settings for convenience features like auto locking etc. Everything else can be dials, knobs, and buttons. My Mazda3 is perfect for this and I’m quite sad that I’m almost certainly not going to be able to find anything like it by the time I…

I have a 2024 Kia EV6, and this is pretty much what it does: Central screen displays CarPlay, backup camera, and infrequently-used settings controls, dials and knobs for most things, one secondary touchbar (row of buttons, but it’s really a touchscreen so the buttons can change) for climate controls. Pretty much perfect, although only wired CarPlay. (The 2025 models apparently have wireless.)

Climate controls, including in-seat heating, as well as radio/media is exactly the stuff that needs actual hardware knobs that are always in exactly the same place and that I can use by knowing where in 3D space they are by muscle memory and feel without looking.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#288

Post by jwagenet »

SoftTalker wrote: post #196
ak217 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mazda also managed to squander a huge brand and structural advantage by falling into lockstep behind other Japanese automakers in underinvesting in EV manufacturing infrastructure. Now they have to rely on their JV partner Changan to lead the way in producing EVs, giving up the core structural strengths that Mazda previously had in designing and building their own components - including software and controls, which i…

A lot of people still don’t want or can’t really afford EVs given their limitations. I’d say it’s the majority where I live. I directly know only one person who has a full EV (not a hybrid). I don’t think the Japanese automakers have squandered anything, yet.

China is currently making affordable EVs, though they might not meet (American) expectations of things like range. There’s no reason why traditional automakers couldnt be doing the same had they not focused on larger ice vehicles, hydrogen, or the luxury market.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#289

Post by latchkey »

acheron9383 wrote: post #199

As someone who works professionally on embedded software devices that update over the internet, car companies are stuck not because they can't get software talent, but because they have no ability to actually build the electronics alongside the software, which is ultimately what constrains embedded software. Without the right hardware, the constraints are just insurmountable, you can not do X feature because board A…

I'm getting IG videos in my feed for a company that sells after market fixes because older Teslas have such poorly designed electronics, that they fail in common ways. The memory goes bad because they write useless logs to a chip, and it eventually fails. End users are beta testing...

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DINADISyP0f/

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#290

Post by tw04 »

latchkey wrote: post #289
acheron9383 wrote: post #199

As someone who works professionally on embedded software devices that update over the internet, car companies are stuck not because they can't get software talent, but because they have no ability to actually build the electronics alongside the software, which is ultimately what constrains embedded software. Without the right hardware, the constraints are just insurmountable, you can not do X feature because board A…

I'm getting IG videos in my feed for a company that sells after market fixes because older Teslas have such poorly designed electronics, that they fail in common ways. The memory goes bad because they write useless logs to a chip, and it eventually fails. End users are beta testing... https://www.instagram.com/reel/DINADISyP0f/

That’s always been the case with Tesla. I still have no idea how the yoke with no progressive steering and a tiny button for a horn ever passed any sanity check. Not to mention the NHTSA.
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