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Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

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Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#251

Post by steve_adams_86 »

omega3 wrote: post #235
acheron9383 wrote: post #199

As someone who works professionally on embedded software devices that update over the internet, car companies are stuck not because they can't get software talent, but because they have no ability to actually build the electronics alongside the software, which is ultimately what constrains embedded software. Without the right hardware, the constraints are just insurmountable, you can not do X feature because board A…

> But you can not just roll all your own electronics in a year. Why? A year is a long time and it's a solved problem. In any case even if you allow the "a year is not enough" argument why didn't they start 5 years ago?

I’m not sure if you’ve worked around hardware but a year is not very long in these environments, and that 5 year plan is less like a sensible, let alone obvious step to take and more like a crazy leap of faith.

You don’t know that vertical integration will guarantee that you’re more competitive, and the investment you need to make before you see a return is beyond 5 years. That’s not an easy bet to make. It looks obvious in retrospect, but it’s really not.

It requires quite a bit of in-housing that many of these teams aren’t yet well-versed in, so as you vertically integrate you’re also disrupting your internal structure while adding new people. It’s a lot to take on. Meanwhile, there are other long term plans underway already.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#252

Post by const_cast »

pnw wrote: post #237
fideloper wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is your phone will do that for you via carplay (etc)

That's a huge assumption. Cars had cell connectivity long before smartphones showed up. Onstar predates the iPhone by a decade.

I don't think it's a huge assumption. It was in the past, but not anymore.

The thing is that car manufacturers have been fucking up software in cars since... forever. The second car play and android auto hit the scene, that's all anyone wanted.

There's more benefits than just what's on the surface, too. Even if the car software is perfect, it doesn't have access to the same data your phone does. It won't put your contacts in your navigation, for instance.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#253

Post by pixl97 »

omega3 wrote: post #235
acheron9383 wrote: post #199

As someone who works professionally on embedded software devices that update over the internet, car companies are stuck not because they can't get software talent, but because they have no ability to actually build the electronics alongside the software, which is ultimately what constrains embedded software. Without the right hardware, the constraints are just insurmountable, you can not do X feature because board A…

> But you can not just roll all your own electronics in a year. Why? A year is a long time and it's a solved problem. In any case even if you allow the "a year is not enough" argument why didn't they start 5 years ago?

Because they are not electronics companies, and further more they are terrible integration companies.

Unless the top of the company comes in and starts chopping every head that gets in the way of the new paradigm then it just ends up in locked up meetings for years of people that don't want to change.

Electronics integration isn't the problem, the people currently there are.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#254

Post by victor9000 »

flax wrote: post #193
anon7000 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mazda has done a great job at this so far, very minimal screen which automatically just shows CarPlay, and buttons for all the normal car stuff, which also isn’t overdone. The only flaw is the scroll wheel to interact with the screen, which is just slightly too clunky in apps with too many options

My 2017 Mazda cx5 refuses to not play the radio. There is no "off" for the audio, you have to choose a source. I use my phone, via bluetooth. But sometimes, for unknown reasons, the car does not connect with the phone. It then falls back to the last source chosen before BT, which is radio. Okay, so I created a flash drive with an mp3 of 30 seconds of silence, played that, then went back to bluetooth. This failback st…

Long pressing the source button turns off audio and keeps it from turning on automatically on the next start. This at least lets you explicitly decide when you want music.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#255

Post by pnw »

throw0101d wrote: post #241
pnw wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Removing LTE would remove key features that drivers want, including real time traffic updates, remote controls and streaming media? What's your objection to LTE?

> What's your objection to LTE? Tracking, phoning home (with related privacy issues), etc : * https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/09/flaw-in-kia-web-portal-... * https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/10/five-...

That's a concern for privacy focused individuals, who are a very small fraction of the consumer market, despite being common here on HN. If the last few decades have shown anything, it's that most consumers don't rank privacy highly as a desired feature for products in anything but the most abstract ways.

There's zero chance a car manufacturer is going to nuke some of the most desired features of modern automobiles for some undefined cohort of privacy conscious consumers.

Most younger drivers would even buy Chinese vehicles despite their privacy concerns.

https://www.autopacific.com/autopacific-insights/2024/5/22/y...

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#256

Post by coderjames »

pnw wrote: post #228
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #48

Remove the LTE chip and all functionality related to ads, support wireless CarPlay and android auto, and use physical buttons. You’ll win every award in the industry.

Removing LTE would remove key features that drivers want, including real time traffic updates, remote controls and streaming media? What's your objection to LTE?

The grandparent said

> support wireless CarPlay and android auto

Removing LTE doesn't cost me real-time traffic updates because (preferred maps app) is running on my phone which already has LTE. Streaming media? The media is being played from my phone or streamed via my phone, which already has LTE. I'm not sure what "remote controls" are in this context? Letting me set the A/C fan to high from Internet (almost certainly via a browser or app running on... wait for it... my phone)?

We've already paid for the LTE modems and app integration on the phone side of things, don't need to pay for it a second time on the car side or have to deal with the vehicle manufacturer's terrible implementations of navigation apps and media streaming services or yet another vendor collecting telemetry about me and reselling it to whoever wants to pay.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#257

Post by winddude »

as a car guy and software engineer I just want to say car's need way less software, way more separation of concerns, more standardisation and more open platforms, but most of the money is made on service, so the manufactures are incentivized to make closed systems.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#258

Post by neild »

deergomoo wrote: post #231

I want a 7-10” central display that spends 99% of its time showing CarPlay but also has a radio if I need it, the backup camera when I’m in reverse, and lets me change a couple of settings for convenience features like auto locking etc. Everything else can be dials, knobs, and buttons. My Mazda3 is perfect for this and I’m quite sad that I’m almost certainly not going to be able to find anything like it by the time I…

I have a 2024 Kia EV6, and this is pretty much what it does: Central screen displays CarPlay, backup camera, and infrequently-used settings controls, dials and knobs for most things, one secondary touchbar (row of buttons, but it’s really a touchscreen so the buttons can change) for climate controls. Pretty much perfect, although only wired CarPlay. (The 2025 models apparently have wireless.)

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#259

Post by fucker42069 »

hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #140
ratatoskrt wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...why? Seems pretty sensible to me?

https://transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-themes/smart-mobili... Can you explain why these protections are not sufficient for privacy? > 112 eCall is not a black box. It does not record constantly the position of the vehicle, it records only a few data to determine the position and direction of the vehicle just before the crash and these data are only transmitted to emergency call centers if there is a serious crash.…

Well, for starters, the SIM card in the eCall system is only needed to receive a callback from the 112 service if the call drops, which the system automatically picks up. You can actually dial 112 without a SIM card in your phone, as a GSM device without one can still connect to nearby radio towers in a "limited-service set," better known as "emergency calls only."

I know some carriers have strange quirks in their SIM provisioning systems. For instance, it may take more than a few minutes or require a specific type of coverage (like UMTS) for an otherwise "dormant" SIM card to activate from limited service on short notice.

I found an article about eCall Callback that confirms this is a known problem: https://eena.org/blog/resolving-the-ecall-callback-issue/

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#260

Post by nothercastle »

pnw wrote: post #228
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #48

Remove the LTE chip and all functionality related to ads, support wireless CarPlay and android auto, and use physical buttons. You’ll win every award in the industry.

Removing LTE would remove key features that drivers want, including real time traffic updates, remote controls and streaming media? What's your objection to LTE?

Why does anyone need any of those except maybe remote start. The rest are handled though CarPlay. Nobody wants built in navigation that the phone already does
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