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Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

insideevs.com

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Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#191

Post by ak217 »

anon7000 wrote: post #142
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #48

Remove the LTE chip and all functionality related to ads, support wireless CarPlay and android auto, and use physical buttons. You’ll win every award in the industry.

Mazda has done a great job at this so far, very minimal screen which automatically just shows CarPlay, and buttons for all the normal car stuff, which also isn’t overdone. The only flaw is the scroll wheel to interact with the screen, which is just slightly too clunky in apps with too many options

Mazda also managed to squander a huge brand and structural advantage by falling into lockstep behind other Japanese automakers in underinvesting in EV manufacturing infrastructure. Now they have to rely on their JV partner Changan to lead the way in producing EVs, giving up the core structural strengths that Mazda previously had in designing and building their own components - including software and controls, which in the Changan-led models have no continuity at all with Mazda's domestic models. They just superficially copy the Mazda exterior design language while wholly dependent on Chinese supply chains (and some Android Auto for the software, it seems) for manufacturing the actual EV.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#192

Post by DragonStrength »

ericmay wrote: post #155
phyzix5761 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physical buttons are a huge need. Its so distracting navigating through screens to change the temperature while driving.

That’s interesting - what vehicles require you to do that? I know the usual suspect is the Tesla, which I have, but I never have to navigate through menus to change the temperature while driving. As an aside a lot of people like to levy criticism on the infotainment screens which I think is very well deserved, but then people text and drive, watch YouTube videos, and do all sorts of crazy things too. Instead of levyi…

Subaru require you navigating to second screen for climate modes. Simple temp adjustment has buttons, but the screen interactions for basic usage feels dangerous as a driver.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#193

Post by flax »

anon7000 wrote: post #142
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #48

Remove the LTE chip and all functionality related to ads, support wireless CarPlay and android auto, and use physical buttons. You’ll win every award in the industry.

Mazda has done a great job at this so far, very minimal screen which automatically just shows CarPlay, and buttons for all the normal car stuff, which also isn’t overdone. The only flaw is the scroll wheel to interact with the screen, which is just slightly too clunky in apps with too many options

My 2017 Mazda cx5 refuses to not play the radio. There is no "off" for the audio, you have to choose a source. I use my phone, via bluetooth. But sometimes, for unknown reasons, the car does not connect with the phone. It then falls back to the last source chosen before BT, which is radio. Okay, so I created a flash drive with an mp3 of 30 seconds of silence, played that, then went back to bluetooth. This failback strategy worked one time, then it also failed to recognize the flash drive, and failed back to radio, again.

I will never want to listen to the radio. I would love to remove radio as an option. I would love to have no fallback as an option. But no, the car just f-n loves the radio and will not stop trying to force it on me.

Oh yeah, and the radio is buggy and could get stuck if I tune into the wrong station. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60333765.

This car definitely tries too hard to be smarter than it is. There's all sorts of exceptions that keep the doors from auto-locking when I walk away, and I would turn all of them off, but I can't. Walk away too fast? doesn't lock. Open the rear? won't auto lock. Car just doesn't feel like it? doesn't auto-lock.

And god forbid you hit the unlock button when the passenger has already unlocked it. Anxious beeps from the car for several solid seconds. That is not an error condition!

Performance and reliability have been great though. They just need to stop trying to be smart. They're not.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#194

Post by bigfatkitten »

sillystu04 wrote: post #46
FrankWilhoit wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Programming embedded devices is not the same thing as "embedded-systems programming". The latter means, first and foremost, that the software is not allowed to crash, ever, for any reason, else it is people's lives. I did some initial requirements work on a system to monitor continuous-web papermaking machinery; the line had to be stopped, physically and completely, within 100ms if anything went wrong, because an unc…

Why do the hardware companies make things so difficult? If I were selling hardware I’d want it to be as open and well documented as possible. So that more people buy it and so that I get credit for all the great stuff people make with my products.

Because then customers would see how rubbish the hardware actually is.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#195

Post by lukan »

mulmen wrote: post #106
ryanbrunner wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't be the first or the last time that a car has a different build out for different locales - as differences go, that's pretty minor.

Ok but that doesn’t really solve the problem in Europe.

I mean we can also change laws again in europe (in favour of that) - but we could also keep it as a separate module. So the LTE chip only gets used for an emergency call and nothing else. No remote control.

Unlikely to happen, but possible (not 100% safe, but good enough).

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#196

Post by SoftTalker »

ak217 wrote: post #191
anon7000 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mazda has done a great job at this so far, very minimal screen which automatically just shows CarPlay, and buttons for all the normal car stuff, which also isn’t overdone. The only flaw is the scroll wheel to interact with the screen, which is just slightly too clunky in apps with too many options

Mazda also managed to squander a huge brand and structural advantage by falling into lockstep behind other Japanese automakers in underinvesting in EV manufacturing infrastructure. Now they have to rely on their JV partner Changan to lead the way in producing EVs, giving up the core structural strengths that Mazda previously had in designing and building their own components - including software and controls, which i…

A lot of people still don’t want or can’t really afford EVs given their limitations. I’d say it’s the majority where I live. I directly know only one person who has a full EV (not a hybrid).

I don’t think the Japanese automakers have squandered anything, yet.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#197

Post by gkhartman »

timewizard wrote: post #175
ericmay wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s interesting - what vehicles require you to do that? I know the usual suspect is the Tesla, which I have, but I never have to navigate through menus to change the temperature while driving. As an aside a lot of people like to levy criticism on the infotainment screens which I think is very well deserved, but then people text and drive, watch YouTube videos, and do all sorts of crazy things too. Instead of levyi…

Ford SYNC. https://pictures.dealer.com/s/surprisefordvtg/0292/10a2adba8... It's like a window into hell.

As a Linux fan and owner of a Sync 1.0 vehicle I feel your pain. I want to replace it with something aftermarket, but the cost of a dash kit is pretty steep if you want one of decent quality. I reboot it weekly, which takes minutes, so it doesn't freeze during the week. I'm guessing there's memory leak that takes a while to accumulate.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#198

Post by minusLik »

1a527dd5 wrote: post #161

I would really rather that cars didn't run software, or at the least the minimal software to get the job done where there is no other option. My current car is a Kia; I love it. But the door locks are software controlled (you can tell from the lag). The issue is I like to lock my doors as soon as I'm in the car. The software can't cope with this; about 500ms later it unlocks the doors again and won't let me lock unti…

The cars I know lock their doors automatically when they go at a certain speed (e. g. mine does at 20 km/h). Doesn't yours?

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#199

Post by acheron9383 »

As someone who works professionally on embedded software devices that update over the internet, car companies are stuck not because they can't get software talent, but because they have no ability to actually build the electronics alongside the software, which is ultimately what constrains embedded software. Without the right hardware, the constraints are just insurmountable, you can not do X feature because board A doesn't have the API to your MCU, or it runs some dogshit speed communication system that means you have 500ms lag. The feature is just unworkable, and if the PMs push it anyways you get what happens for the legacy car makers, terrible underpowered infotainment systems with no central design philosophy, stuck in an awkward, bad, middle between a full software stack and all buttons for everything. Their model of integrating 3rd party vendor computers just doesn't really work for this kind of thing; Tesla, Rivian, and the Chinese EV makers all manufacture all their own electronics, which lets them achieve the outcome. But you can not just roll all your own electronics in a year.

Re: Car companies are in a billion-dollar software war

#200

Post by aucisson_masque »

1a527dd5 wrote: post #161

I would really rather that cars didn't run software, or at the least the minimal software to get the job done where there is no other option. My current car is a Kia; I love it. But the door locks are software controlled (you can tell from the lag). The issue is I like to lock my doors as soon as I'm in the car. The software can't cope with this; about 500ms later it unlocks the doors again and won't let me lock unti…

> it works great 99% of the time

You summed it up. I want the minimum required electronic in my cars and above all no software managing critical features like abs breaking that could be updated on the air, like the Tesla.

Humans aren't perfect by any means, software might be better than us by a few percent at avoiding crash but damn, when I crash i want it to be my own fault.

If tomorrow I run over a kid because my abs had a bug, go prove that in court. And yes it actually happened in France with the speed control, some manufacturer managed to fuck that up and people who had crashed (without killing themselves) have a hard time to dismiss the so called expert calling them basically retards incapable of pressing the break pedal, that they press the clutch pedal instead of the break one...

There are reports of people being stuck in their car for up to an hour, while on call with the police, trying everything, and you're telling me that they are not capable of pressing the break pedal during that entire hour ?

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