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First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

cnn.com

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Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#711

Post by bromuro »

nosianu wrote: post #176
ch4s3 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The white smoke means there's a pope thing started in 1914[1], but they've been burning the ballots for a very long time. [1] https://www.history.com/articles/pope-conclave-smoke-color

Annoyingly, when I go to that page, even from Google where I found that URL too, I end up at the German homepage www.history.de (no path, the main page). I cannot go to history.com no matter what. I hate "intelligent" websites as much as I like touchpad microwaves, and that means not at all. Why would anyone assume an enforced(!!!) connection between my geographic location and the language-version of the website?

Mine goes to Youtube after some quick redirects :(

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#712

Post by NickNaraghi »

Spooky23 wrote: post #416
dzdt wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain this like I'm 5?

It’s part of the hierarchy of the church. Diocesan priests “work” for the bishop in a particular geographical area and are in the “corporate” hierarchy of the church. Religious orders are sort of independent from the the church hierarchy and report through to the leader of their order, at a global level. They often focus on specific things and may have different vows. Franciscans are known for their work with the poo…

That is incredible. Anywhere we can read more about the voting system, or the infra you used to implement it?

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#713

Post by neaden »

CaptainNegative wrote: post #699
neaden wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is he the first US Citizen to be head of a foreign state or have their been others? Edit: Did some googling and found Toomas Hendrik Ilves was a naturalized US citizen who renounced his citizenship before becoming an Estonian ambassador and later President of Estonia. Not seeing any who actively held US citizenship while being head of state.

Golda Meir was the Prime Minister (head of government) of Israel after having naturalized in the US when she was 19.

Looks like she gave up her US citizenship when she moved, as did Boris Johnson who was also mentioned. So I haven't seen anyone who retained citizenship and was a recognized head of state.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#714

Post by jkaplowitz »

anon291 wrote: post #600
jkaplowitz wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your source on that, at least in the case when the head of the foreign state also remains a US citizen? There's also the interesting question of whether he will remain a US citizen after all, or whether taking the office of pope will count as him relinquishing US citizenship under INA §349(a)(4): https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/L... In the latter case, the tax question would not aris…

There is no way in hell they'd revoke his American citizenship. American Catholics would be up in arms.

Depends on what the Pope himself wants, I imagine. Not every head of state or head of government wants to hold foreign citizenship.

Two examples from Canada: former Governor General Michaëlle Jean, who represented the Canadian monarch in Canada for day-to-day head of state duties, renounced her French citizenship when before becoming Governor General; and current Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney renounced his British and Irish citizenships before becoming Prime Minister. Neither renunciation was required according to law or constitutional convention, but they both wanted to remove any question as to their allegiance.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#715

Post by jkaplowitz »

BirAdam wrote: post #494
jkaplowitz wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your source on that, at least in the case when the head of the foreign state also remains a US citizen? There's also the interesting question of whether he will remain a US citizen after all, or whether taking the office of pope will count as him relinquishing US citizenship under INA §349(a)(4): https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/L... In the latter case, the tax question would not aris…

I put no such assumptions on this. If Trump gets angry with His Holiness, Trump will probably have Little Marco revoke the Pope’s citizenship.

If the Pope and the Department of State disagree on this, whichever party wants to prove the loss of citizenship will have to prove it in court. Rubio and his department don't get the final say, though they do get to make the initial administrative decision.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#717

Post by harimau777 »

refurb wrote: post #702
afavour wrote: post #97

> "Cardinal George of Chicago, of happy memory, was one of my great mentors, and he said: 'Look, until America goes into political decline, there won't be an American pope.' And his point was, if America is kind of running the world politically, culturally, economically, they don't want America running the world religiously. So, I think there's some truth to that, that we're such a superpower and so dominant, they do…

It’s funny seeing people talk about the decline of America. I can remember the same conversations in the 1970’s, late 2000’s as well.

Back then we didn't have a fascist for president or a court full of people who will make up anything to get the results that they want.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#718

Post by cperciva »

PortiaBerries wrote: post #609
ben_w wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pope Quartz: https://xkcd.com/2501/ I was raised Catholic and couldn't have even told you there'd been a single Pope Leo, let alone 13 of them before today. The only Pope quote I could even give you is the term "Ex Cathedra".

It never ceases to amaze me how poorly catechized the majority of cradle Catholics are. I don't intend this to be directed at you, but it's a standing joke among traditionalist Catholics that "I was raised Catholic" is the preamble to a statement of either ignorance or heresy.

Isn't that the point though? To provide a disjunction?

"I was raised Catholic" is like "I'm not racist but".

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#719

Post by cperciva »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #553
Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neat thanks. Btw how do you know this?! Have you memorized stuff of all the passed popes?

These are the types of things talked about in small groups near your local cathedral by members of groups like Opus Dei everywhere around the world. All are welcome :)

All are welcome

Including atheists?

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#720

Post by kashunstva »

GuB-42 wrote: post #628
mvieira38 wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans will say they are Italian because their great grandma ate spaghetti once, but God forbid someone is American because he was born there

GP is right, he is not "completely" American in the sense that he is both American and Peruvian because of his dual citizenship. He also spent most of his life outside of the USA. Which I think is a great thing as the representative of a worldwide religion. Born in the US, an English-speaking country in North America, lived in Peru, a Spanish-speaking country in the South America, then in Italy, an Italian-speaking c…

> he is not "completely" American

As for being completely American: dual citizen of U.S. and another country here. On each April 15, the U.S. still considers me completely American even though I haven’t earned a cent there in over a decade. So in an official sense, that moniker sticks to you like Super Glue.

Granted, the new pope may have a wider scope of cultural influences than many, if not a majority of Americans, it sounds like his formative years were spent in the U.S. so I’d call him American.

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