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First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

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Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#461

Post by cosmicgadget »

MegaDeKay wrote: post #268
throw310822 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he's on the same positions as Pope Francis but he's American, then this is a great move by the Catholic Church. Many Americans will naturally root for "their" Pope, and this will lead them away from the positions of Trump and the Evangelicals.

Seems that the new pope has strongly criticized Trump and Vance in the past. This is going to get interesting... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/new-pope-r...

I mean Trump's own VP has strongly criticized him in the past, it's the herpes of political positions.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#462

Post by senderista »

sirbutters wrote: post #369
doomroot13 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't hold your breath. My whole family are staunch Catholics and disliked Francis because of his more "liberal" leanings. Some Catholics believed he was the "anti-christ" and loved Trump. Seriously.

Exactly. The day orange loser posted his picture as the pope, you just had to read what catholics were saying in r/conservative. It was a mostly along the lines of "I don't think it was very wise to do that, but I'll never stop supporting him".

I bet they'd say the same thing if Trump memed himself being crucified or something.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#463

Post by jkaplowitz »

tptacek wrote: post #306
seydor wrote: post #198

Will he be taxed on his foreign Papal salary? Or will he forego the salary , like Francis did?

Apparently heads of foreign states are exempt.

What's your source on that, at least in the case when the head of the foreign state also remains a US citizen?

There's also the interesting question of whether he will remain a US citizen after all, or whether taking the office of pope will count as him relinquishing US citizenship under INA §349(a)(4): https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/L... In the latter case, the tax question would not arise.

Existing US Department of State policy applies an administrative presumption to most cases of accepting foreign government employment that the person does not intend to relinquish US citizenship unless they affirmatively state otherwise, but they don't apply any such presumption to becoming a foreign head of state or a foreign head of government. They actively analyze such cases individually with no default presumption.

Pope Leo XIV will lose his US citizenship due to his acceptance of the papacy if and only if he intended to relinquish US citizenship by that act, based on the standard of proof of the preponderance of the evidence (the same as in civil lawsuits). He has the right to dispute the question in court if he and the US Department of State disagree on the answer, but I imagine this would in practice be handled more quietly for such a high-profile case.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#464

Post by bobthepanda »

defen wrote: post #398
srameshc wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible that this move is to reinstate Catholicism in the United States, given that Evangelicals appear to be gaining influence?

What do you mean reinstate? The country was founded by the descendants of people who for the most part hated Catholicism.

Maryland was founded as one of the original colonies as a haven for Catholics. There have always been Catholics in the US, though certainly it has been a bumpy ride; there were questions about how accepted JFK would be as the first Catholic president.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#465

Post by jowea »

pc86 wrote: post #320
pavlov wrote: post #310

In his time around the end of the 19th century, Leo XIII was known as the “Social Pope” and “Pope of the Workers”. He wasn’t a radical but opened the door to modern thinking in the church. Presumably there’s some symbolism to why the new pope wanted to adopt this particular name.

Symbolism is a huge part of what name you select which is why its been a minute since a Pope Innocent or Pope Pious.

Pius XII is controversial because of WW2, but I don't see anything particularly bad with the latest popes with Innocent. Is it something related to his predecessors?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Innocent_XIII

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#466

Post by jkaplowitz »

codethief wrote: post #294
devrandoom wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he is taxed, he should renounce US citizenship as he's very unlike to move back to the US.

Notably, in that case he might end up no longer being able to enter the US at all: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_Amendment_(immigration)

That would only apply if he were to renounce for the purpose of avoiding taxation, as opposed to for the purpose of having his sole allegiance be that of the city-state and the church over which he rules, or for the purpose of having diplomatic immunity during visits to the US.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#467

Post by Calwestjobs »

raddan wrote: post #430
afavour wrote: post #97

> "Cardinal George of Chicago, of happy memory, was one of my great mentors, and he said: 'Look, until America goes into political decline, there won't be an American pope.' And his point was, if America is kind of running the world politically, culturally, economically, they don't want America running the world religiously. So, I think there's some truth to that, that we're such a superpower and so dominant, they do…

[flagged]

Great symbol was - every cardinal standing on balconies with/besides him.

No media covered / decoded what that gesture signifies.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#468

Post by quesera »

Kye wrote: post #415

Chicago: known for wind, one of the world's largest furry conventions, and the first American pope.

Actually not known for atmospheric wind, but for bloviating in a windy way.

With the construction of tall city blocks and the breezes off of Lake Michigan, the atmospheric use has become somewhat more true. No more so than most USAmerican cities though.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#469

Post by BirAdam »

progbits wrote: post #392
register wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To exert political pressure on the current American leadership by influencing the masses and achieve the objectives of the Catholic Church? Have you forgotten what happened with Wojtyła and Solidarność?

Current USA leadership is already taking actions well aligned with the church (such as stripping rights from women, homosexuals).

While the Church is conservative in some ways people dislike it also advocates things like peace, ending capital punishment, and nondescrimination based upon race. In my home city, the Church was the only place that wasn’t racist. For my entire life, the Church has been the only place in America with a majority that didn’t want to bomb poor brown people all over the planet. In modern America, not wanting to bomb people is… umm… foreign to both sides of the political spectrum.

Re: First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

#470

Post by ivape »

afavour wrote: post #97

> "Cardinal George of Chicago, of happy memory, was one of my great mentors, and he said: 'Look, until America goes into political decline, there won't be an American pope.' And his point was, if America is kind of running the world politically, culturally, economically, they don't want America running the world religiously. So, I think there's some truth to that, that we're such a superpower and so dominant, they do…

[flagged]
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