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India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

reuters.com

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Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#611

Post by enugu »

dmurray wrote: post #603
enugu wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The context was a reply to an assertion that the terrorists in Pahalgam were not found by Indian security. I interpreted this as people who physically did the attack. If by terrorists, we mean the planners of the operation, that trail leads directly to Pakistan. Musharraf, the ex-army chief, is on record saying that the military has funded several militant organizations in Kashmir including LeT. (Osama's haveli in Ab…

"funding militant organizations" isn't the same as committing acts of terrorism. Nobody would have said the US should have responded to the 9/11 attacks with airstrikes on the CIA headquarters.

We are not talking about re-targeting of training and weapons from Afghanistan to Manhattan, but direct planning of an attack with ability to restrain and release the groups on demand. Contra the truthers, even the CIA wouldn't go that far. Musharraf explicitly mentioned the groups operating in Kashmir. He wasn't talking about fighters in Afghanistan.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#612

Post by ryzvonusef »

digitalPhonix wrote: post #20

From the article: > Pakistan said India hit three sites with missiles, and a military spokesman told Reuters his country shot down five Indian aircraft, a claim not confirmed by India. That’s a huge loss of aircraft! Are there any corroborating reports or more details about the aircraft/shootdown?

france confirms at least one rafale is down, acc to cnn[1], not sure about others.

[1]: https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/india-pakistan-attac...

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#614

Post by profsummergig »

SauciestGNU wrote: post #599
whatshisface wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when the US attacked Afghanistan after 9/11, the objective wasn't to target the exact people who carried out the attacks, but the organization behind the attacks The mission in Afghanistan was very much to find Bin Laden. It was changed after he escaped.

Apropos of this conflict, to where did Bin Laden escape?

I hope it wasn't to a military cantonment in Pakistan. That would be wild.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#615

Post by alephnerd »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #203
alephnerd wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That area is devastated Most of Jammu Division is alright (eg. Kishtwar is relatively quiet). The issues are more prominent towards the ilakeh near the LoC and international border. It's like the bad old days again from what I'm hearing, back when you'd hear about some shelling in pind X killing 2-3 unlucky souls who couldn't make it to a bunker on time.

i meant the rain thing on srinagar-jammu highway

Ah my bad! Yea, it was pretty bad.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#616

Post by profsummergig »

stuckinhell wrote: post #575
krisoft wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pakistan is not economically strong enough to participate in a war They have nukes. They don't need to be rich to do massive damage. Sure doing so would have terrible consequences, but cooler heads sometimes don't prevail. Or only prevail after much suffering and pain.

my worry is the nukes too

[flagged]

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#618

Post by enugu »

nindalf wrote: post #444
enugu wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are actually arguing that a country targeted by a terrorist attack does not gain deterrence with a counterstrike relative to letting things go on, then how uniform do you consider this prescription? Should the terror attacks in the US or France not have had a military response? What happens to the incentives of terror groups in response to such a policy? --- The role of money only becomes an issue when conduct…

The Pakistani military cares about itself, above all. It wants to maintain its role as the primary protector of the Pakistani people, answerable to no one but themselves. As long as the threat of India looms large, their primacy is guaranteed. As a reward generals are allowed to grow filthy rich. Support for the Pakistani military was at its nadir during the era of benign neglect because there wasn't an Indian boogey…

Yes, an outside target can be used to tackle internal strife. But, there is no sign that the Pakistani army is actually in any danger of being removed from power, barring a major military defeat, nor that it will lose its autonomy over military policy.

If say, India were to let this slide, the default outcome is another such attack. Given the above motivation of the military to create a conflict and the ideological bent seen in Gen.Munir's speech, the expected outcome would be to repeat till this they get a conflict.

Yes, the deterrence won't be perfect. The Pakistan Army might end up repeating an attack whenever there is a relief from economic constraints(it doesn't have money for frequent purchases of expensive weapons) or from pressure from its allies (who dont want their oil trade or pipelines to suffer). But this means that what India has to do to minimize the number of attacks is to not let an attack slide by with low cost for the army.

The best case scenario would be a peace deal, as was arrived in Vajpayee and Sharif's time, but it was sabotaged by the Kargil operation, for exactly the reason you mentioned - a peace deal marginalises the army.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#619

Post by chgs »

roncesvalles wrote: post #530
chgs wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not convinced India is particularly US aligned, and while Pakistan is relations have deteriorated in the past, the us has backed Pakistan more than India. Maybe this time the us would back India as part of a proxy war.

The thing is, the US doesn't want partners; it wants allies . And that's too big of a commitment for India to make. This is basically the central tension that keeps US-India relations from moving too fast.

US doesn’t want allies now. It wasn’t vassal states and transaction deals.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#620

Post by ANewFormation »

ashoeafoot wrote: post #511
somenameforme wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a peer mentioned, the 'Kiev will fall in 3 days' came from Mark Milley (US Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the time), not Russia. Beyond that, the decision was then near immediately made to lock all men of "fighting age" in the country, prevent them from leaving, and begin mass conscription. This is something that I hope, in the future, will be seen as no less barbaric than slavery. If people want to figh…

They found parade uniforms in those tanks that stalled out on the way to Kjiev.

Further claims from Ukraine: they've had 30,000 total deaths, are inflicting casualties at a 10:1 rate, have a 'Ghost of Kyiv' single handedly flying around taking on Russia, Russia is out of missiles, and so on endlessly.

They are not a reliable source.

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